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Why Iran Has Decided To Arm Russia, And The Price To Pay
Worldcrunch ^

Posted on 04/15/2024 10:28:03 AM PDT by USA-FRANCE

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To: higgmeister

Yeah the ISS, that proves Russia and America are friends. Not.

And we’re not “Zeepers’ we are knowledgeable conservative Americans.


41 posted on 04/17/2024 4:13:19 PM PDT by Williams (Stop Tolerating The Intolerant)
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To: bimboeruption

Only the Trump Administration couldn’t be bought.


42 posted on 04/18/2024 1:00:44 AM PDT by Does so ( đŸ‡ºđŸ‡¦....We are in the later stages of a Communist takeover...)
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To: higgmeister; USA-FRANCE; PIF; Williams; Timber Rattler; gleeaikin
higgmeister: "I haven't believed one minute of Russian propaganda, the same as Ukrainian propaganda. "

On this thread alone you've repeated the absurd Russian propaganda claim that "Our Neocons created this proxy war for their own interests."

Only somebody highly addicted to Russian propaganda sources would allow any credence to such nonsense.

higgmeister: "Our enemies are China, Socialist Democrats and radical Islam of all shapes, stripes and sizes."

Every country, even allies, competes with every other country for economic success and political influence, that's just the nature of life.
What turns competitors into opponents and even enemies are the depths to which an adversary will sink in order to win the competitions.
In other words, do they play by generally accepted rules, or do they constantly break the rules in order to score extra points?
In the case of CCP China, the PRC, they break a lot of rules, including:

  1. The PRC is a communist dictatorship ruled by and for the benefit of the CCP.
    As such it is inherently antagonistic to traditional western democratic values.
    Today the CCP does allow a certain amount of privately owned enterprise, but it is all highly controlled and effectively under the direction of the CCP, meaning, according to traditional definitions, China is not a communist country, they're now fascists.

  2. They steal technology, sometimes semi-legitimately, by buying up companies which have it, but other times with just outright theft, especially of military tech.

  3. They make predatory loans to countries who can't afford them, then take control when those countries can't make payments.

  4. They corrupt foreign (i.e., American) political and business leaders into doing things which do not "put American first".

  5. They use unfair pricing and currency manipulation to destroy industries in other countries, notably in the US.

  6. China's economic growth has been accompanied by a growing effort to dominate the US Navy in the western Pacific.

  7. The PRC aggressively pursues border and sovereignty disputes with many neighbors, from Japan and Taiwan to Vietnam, Philippines & Indonesia (9X line) to India and Bhutan (in the Himalayas).
    The PRC's threatened invasion of Taiwan could trigger a much wider & more deadly war.

  8. Over the years the PRC has invaded its neighbors Korea, Vietnam, India and the USSR, while threatening Japan, Taiwan, countries around the South China Sea and Bhutan.
Those are the behaviors of an adversary, if not outright enemy, just yet.

So let's compare the above to Russia.

  1. Russia is a former Communist dictatorship, today a failed democracy and now effectively a fascist dictatorship, like China.

  2. Like China, going back before WWII, the Soviet Union always bought or stole western technology -- famously their T-34 tank was purchased from Walter Christie, their A-bomb technology stolen from the US Manhattan Project, and their MIG jet engines from early British designs.
    Sadly, one benefit to Russia of the Ukraine war is a windfall of Western military tech falling into Russian hands on the battlefields.

  3. Similar to China, Russians never give loans or grants in aid without political conditions attached.
    Notoriously, today the Wagner Group in Africa fights to support dictators there, in exchange for a large share of the profits from mining or other exports.

  4. Russia is the very definition of the term "culture of corruption", compared to whom the Chinese are paragons of political and economic virtue.
    Indeed, all of the claims that Ukraine is "the most corrupt nation on earth" stem from Ukraine's birth in 1991 as a "child" and inheritor of "mother Russia's" corruption, a legacy Ukrainians have struggled painfully to slowly overcome.

  5. Russia's GDP is relatively small and their raw materials exports were never seen as a serious threat to US and our allies' economies.
    On the other hand, Russia has maximized its political leverage from economic assets whenever possible, notably since 2022 in low-cost energy sales to countries like India and China.

  6. Russia's relatively small GDP has never supported the size of naval ships found in the US Navy, but Russian huge armies have always been a threat to their neighbors in the "near abroad".
    Where Russia's neighbors border NATO countries, Russia's armies can be serious threats to the US national interests as well.

  7. Since 1991, Russia has waged war against several states and threatened many more.
    Russia has invaded Moldova, Chechnya, Georgia, Syria and Ukraine, the latter twice in 2014 and again in 2022.
    Russian threats against its neighbors include:

    • Moldova (1992–present, occupied, war caused ~3,500 casualties)
    • Georgia (2004–present, 3,100 casualties, 200,000 displaced)
    • Lithuania (2006, refinery & pipeline dispute)
    • Estonia (2006–2007, numerous)
    • Poland (2006–present, Baltiysk blockade)
    • Belarus (2007, energy dispute)
    • Ukraine (2014–present, total ~600,000 casualties, millions displaced, more than $500 billion in destruction)
    • Syria (2015–present, civil war circa 100,000 total deaths)
    • Turkey (2015–2016, SU24 shootdown)
    • Kazakhstan (2021–2022, Russian "peace keepers") [3] and
    • Armenia (2022, CSTO refused to defend against Azerbaijan attacks)[4] amongst others.[5]

  8. The old Communist Manifesto has now been replaced by the doctrines of "Russkiy Mir" & Alexander Dugin's geopolitics as ideological justifications for aggressive Russian empire building.

  9. While posing as conservative Christians, in fact Russians persecute and prosecute Christians they don't like, such as Jehovah's Witnesses, for the crime of Bible reading.
Those are the behaviors of an adversary, if not outright enemy, just yet.

So, in what ways have the US & Russia cooperated & coordinated?
There are three worth mentioning:

  1. In 1992 Russia and other former Soviet countries became NATO Partners for Peace, in effect, one step before NATO membership and for many years, well into the early 2000s, Russia and NATO cooperated on very friendly terms, including Russian peace keepers in Bosnia in 1995 and Russia's help in supporting US forces in Afghanistan in the early 2000s.
    Friendly relations with NATO pretty much ended after Russia's 2008 invasion of Georgia.

  2. The 1994 Budapest Memorandum where Russia, the US and UK pledged to support Ukraine's security in exchange for Ukraine giving up it's nuclear weapons.
    In 2014 Vlad the Invader made a complete mockery of the Budapest Memorandum.

  3. Cooperation in space exploration, which began in 1975 under the old Soviet Union, continued and expanded with the Russian Federation.
higgmeister: "We share occupation of the ISS with Russia even using their Soyuz to get there.
You Zeepers are nutso!"

I think anyone can agree that US-Russia cooperation in space exploration is valuable, but does it outweigh the many other ways in which Russia behaves like our enemy?

Naw, not even close.

43 posted on 04/18/2024 4:06:06 PM PDT by BroJoeK (future DDG 134 -- we remember)
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To: BroJoeK

Over the years the PRC has invaded its neighbors Korea, Vietnam, India and the USSR, while threatening Japan, Taiwan, countries around the South China Sea and Bhutan.


CCP Score card:
Korea: a stalemate due to UN passing military info to the Chinese; Vietnam: lost 2 - one a total rout; India: took severe beatings; USSR: tied one, lost one.


44 posted on 04/18/2024 5:08:25 PM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: BroJoeK

“We share occupation of the ISS with Russia even using their Soyuz to get there.


No longer - the Soyuz is used for re-supply and taking Russians to the station. Everyone else uses SpaceX Falcon with the Dragon capsule.


45 posted on 04/18/2024 5:13:19 PM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: BroJoeK
I said that I don't believe Ukrainian propaganda.   Why did you even bother piling on more of your tripe?   Hint: I don't bother reading it either.
46 posted on 04/18/2024 10:20:51 PM PDT by higgmeister (In the Shadow of The Big Chicken! )
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To: higgmeister
higgmeister: "I said that I don't believe Ukrainian propaganda.
Why did you even bother piling on more of your tripe?
Hint: I don't bother reading it either."

Sure, I get it -- you're here only to spread Russian propaganda lies and to ignore the truth, no matter what.

I'm here to debunk your lies and explain the truth.

47 posted on 04/19/2024 3:52:38 AM PDT by BroJoeK (future DDG 134 -- we remember)
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To: PIF; USA-FRANCE; Williams; Timber Rattler; gleeaikin
PIF: "CCP Score card:
Korea: a stalemate due to UN passing military info to the Chinese;
Vietnam: lost 2 - one a total rout;
India: took severe beatings;
USSR: tied one, lost one."

It struck me this morning that I totally forgot to mention the chemical and biological warfare the CCP has waged against Americans for how many years now?

Chemical warfare: for example, fentanyl -- going back at least 10 years -- which is estimated to have killed over 70,000 Americans in 2022 alone, mostly younger and poorer.

Biological warfare: for example, Covid-19 is said to have killed over one million Americans since 2020, mostly elderly and sick.

What other deadly enemy in wartime has inflicted so many deaths on Americans?

The CCP is not our friend in this regard, and the only Russian analogy I can think of is when I hear American politicians spouting Russian propaganda, as if they'd been drinking agitprop directly from the Kremlin's disinformation sewer pipes.

So, the CCP's chemical and biological warfare against the US attacks huge numbers of our weakest, indeed often forgotten citizens, while Russia's deadly propaganda has found its way into the minds of some of our most influential political leaders.

Nearly all of the deaths resulting from Russian propaganda are, so far, limited to Ukrainians and, of course, Russians themselves.

48 posted on 04/20/2024 2:10:40 PM PDT by BroJoeK (future DDG 134 -- we remember)
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