Posted on 04/22/2024 9:47:12 AM PDT by McGruff
European Union countries, including the Netherlands, Germany and Sweden, are hesitant to provide Ukraine with Patriot air defense systems.
The Netherlands is exploring options to support Ukraine financially and is considering depleting its stock of Patriot systems.
NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said existing capabilities across the alliance could be made available to Ukraine.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
Here’s an idea, instead of dribbling out military aid how about giving them back the nukes we convinced them to give up in the 90s among with a delivery system that can reach St Petersburg and Moscow. Let’s see if MAD works in that scenario
Ocheretyne, Chasiv Yar, Krasnohorivka: the Russians are still advancing in eastern Ukraine
17APR2024
(translated from French)
The Russian army gained five kilometers in a few days, reaching the gates of the Ocheretyne logistics node west of Avdiivka. Elsewhere in Donbass, it also presses the fortresses of Krasnohorivka and Chasiv Yar.
The commander-in-chief of the Ukrainian army, General Oleksandr Syrsky , recognized just a few days ago that the situation on the front had “considerably deteriorated” in the east of the country, citing “tactical successes” of the Russians who would seek to “create the conditions for a deeper advance” . The map of the conflict shows in recent hours a push by the occupier, particularly to the west of Avdiivka , this fortified town conquered on February 17. In a few days, the Russians managed to advance about 5 kilometers, approaching the town of Ocheretyne. Further north, same scenario to the west of the town of Bakhmout where the Russians entered the first dwellings of Chasiv Yar, one of the Ukrainian fortresses which protect the large cities of Donbass still controlled by Kiev. Same scenario again, this time further south, where the Russians have penetrated another Ukrainian fortress, Krasnohorivka.
First of all, Ukraine had no ability to operate the Soviet nukes that remained there in the early 1990s.
Second of all, the corrupt, broken kleptocracy that Ukraine was (until the USA imposed its own oligarchs in 2014) - one of those nukes would have been sold to the highest bidder. Imagine if 9/11 wasn't just a plane flying into WTC, but rather, a big dirty bomb was set off instead, courtesy of some corrupt Ukraine pols?
Those nukes were turned over to Russia, with the assurance from the west that we would defend Ukraine from Russian aggression. All part of the accords at the time.
Wow ! What a surprise !
The US votes $95 billion but what Ukraine needs most, air defence, is still not going to be sent.
Then give them the equivalent
I haven’t the faintest idea how a state of M.A.D. could be created out of thin air between Ukraine and Russia but the concept of having M.A.D. there instead of this insane forever war would be a lot cheaper in terms of tragic lives lost and money we don’t have being spent, not to mention the dangerous depletion of ours and NATO’s stock of weapons.
They need that Russian oil and gas. Can’t get too serious about supporting Ukraine.
That is false.
The agreement only said the parties, including the US, would have talks.
There is absolutely no defense help offered in it. You, and others here, are misguided.
At the time of Ukraine’s independence from the Soviet Union in 1991, Ukraine held the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world, including an estimated 1,900 strategic warheads, 176 intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs), and 44 strategic bombers. By 1996, Ukraine had returned all of its nuclear warheads to Russia in exchange for economic aid and security assurances, and in December 1994, Ukraine became a non-nuclear weapon state-party to the 1968 nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT). The last strategic nuclear delivery vehicle in Ukraine was eliminated in 2001 under the 1991 Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START). It took years of political maneuvering and diplomatic work, starting with the Lisbon Protocol in 1992, to remove the weapons and nuclear infrastructure from Ukraine.
With the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the Commonwealth of Independent States signed the Minsk Agreement on December 30, 1991, agreeing that the Russian government would be given charge of all nuclear armaments. However, as long as the weapons remained in Belarus, Ukraine, and Kazakhstan, the governments of those countries would have the right to veto their use. The target date for dismantling the weapons was set for the end of 1994.
Ukraine signed the Lisbon Protocol on May 23, 1992. The protocol sought to return the nuclear weapons in Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Ukraine to Russia. All states were to join START and the NPT. However, within Ukraine, there was little motion towards the ratification of START, joining the NPT, or overall denuclearization. The protocol required that Ukraine adhere to the NPT as quickly as possible, but it gave the country up to seven years to follow through.
As the United States mediated between Russia and Ukraine, the three countries signed the Trilateral Statement on January 14, 1994. Ukraine committed to full disarmament, including strategic weapons, in exchange for economic support and security assurances from the United States and Russia. Ukraine agreed to transfer its nuclear warheads to Russia and accepted U.S. assistance in dismantling missiles, bombers, and nuclear infrastructure. Ukraine’s warheads would be dismantled in Russia, and Ukraine would receive compensation for the commercial value of the highly enriched uranium. Ukraine ratified START on February 3, 1994, repealing its earlier preconditions, but it would not accede to the NPT without further security assurances.
To solidify security commitments to Ukraine, the United States, Russia, and the United Kingdom signed the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances on December 5, 1994. A political agreement in accordance with the principles of the Helsinki Accords, the memorandum included security assurances against the threat or use of force against Ukraine’s territory or political independence. The countries promised to respect the sovereignty and existing borders of Ukraine. Parallel memorandums were signed for Belarus and Kazakhstan as well. In response, Ukraine officially acceded to the NPT as a non-nuclear weapon state on December 5, 1994. That move met the final condition for ratification of START, and on the same day, the five START states-parties exchanged instruments of ratification, bringing the treaty into force.
Russia and the United States released a joint statement in 2009 confirming that the security assurances made in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum would still be valid after START expired in 2009.
Following months of political unrest and the abrupt departure of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, Russian troops entered the Crimean peninsula of Ukraine in March 2014. On March 18, over the protests of the acting government in Kiev, the UN Security Council, and Western governments, Russia declared the annexation of Crimea. The United States, the United Kingdom, and Ukraine called the action a blatant violation of the security assurances in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum. However, according to the Russian Foreign Ministry, “the security assurances were given to the legitimate government of Ukraine but not to the forces that came to power following the coup d’etat.”
Russia only played along so long as it thought Ukraine would continue to be a puppet government.
It was only a written agreement to have talks, if the sovereignty became a problem. That was the complete extent of all security assurances.
Note that 0bama did nothing with Ukraine in 2014, when Russia first took land. Note, also, that Ukraine really didn't do anything of consequence, except let their Nazis handle it.
According to the three memoranda, Russia, the US and the UK confirmed their recognition of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine becoming parties to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and effectively removing all Soviet nuclear weapons from their soil, and that they agreed to the following:
Respect the signatory’s independence and sovereignty in the existing borders (in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act).
Refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of the signatories to the memorandum, and undertake that none of their weapons will ever be used against these countries, except in cases of self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.
Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine, the Republic of Belarus and Kazakhstan of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.
Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to the signatory if they “should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used”.
Not to use nuclear weapons against any non - nuclear-weapon state party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a state in association or alliance with a nuclear weapon state.
Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments.
Not sure what part of TREATY you dont get? Russia violated the treaty. Ukraine would not have given up the weapons without Allied assurances. The Allies did not step up in 2014.
“ European Union countries, including the Netherlands, Germany and Sweden, are hesitant to provide Ukraine with Patriot air defense systems”
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The EU “talks the talk” but it doesn’t “walk the walk” when it comes to THEIR SUPPORT OF UKRAINE. As usual, they want the AMERICAN TAXPAYERS to bear the burden.
IT’S NOT OUR WAR!
It’s all “talk only.”
Not sure how you can’t see it.
Oh, and provide the source of your words.
Words mean things, or they dont mean anything.
Yeah, “Let’s talk about that.”
Considering they’ve been telling us if Ukraine falls American troops will be fighting the Russians at the gates of Paris by fall, they’d better keep them.
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