The "This isn't a war about religion" line.

aruanan | October 8, 2001 | aruanan

[Mercuria]

Another shocker:

Did you know it's actually within people to be evil without them being "crazy"?

Selah!

Nice job, aru...

[Quix]

VERY WELL said.

THANKS.

[Quix]

Strongly AGREE.

[Quix]

QUITE SO.

I strongly support our troops and President.

I happen to also believe that no human coalition or amount of troops or firepower is going to do Islam in.

I believe God has HIS own plan and timing for that and it may well be a lot sooner than most think. I believe God is determined to have the glory; the "air time;" the impact of that "message." Certainly HE does all things well and His timing is perfect. From my ignorant standpoint, sooner is better.

[is_is]

because this is going to be a bloodbath of historical proportions,

Your are right....

Americans are going to have to make a decision.....our children alive and free or their children. This killing innocents PC crap is going to cost alot of American children their lives (as well as moms and dads). We have to go against the countries that support terrorism in such a violent and horrible way that they tremble at the thought of America.

These people cannot be made to hate us more.....but they can be made afraid.....VERY AFRAID.....

[Mr. Bungle]

Thanks for the post. Pretty much sums up what I'd been thinking about this. Now I don't have to write it.

Notably absent are theories relating to Kyoto, my favorite of all.

I'm heartbroken. :p

[ppaul]

BOOKMARKED

BUMP.

[aruanan]

Muddled rationalism. The one thing in this world that is entirely more false than any half-baked religious notions in rationalism. Atheism is just an excuse to hide from morality, and there is no greater mistruth than to say that religion has ever been the cause of any deaths. The thing you lack is any real understanding of religion.

Ha ha ha ha ha. Do you know the meaning of "sarcasm"? Besides, atheism is a manifestation of religion. "Religion" is not a synonym of "the true thing Jesus taught" or Christianity or theism or deism or pantheism or animism. If you're using religion to mean "the real thing", as it appears you are doing, and "the real thing" to mean "what I understand the real thing to be" or "what I've been told is the real thing", then you're restricting the word to a personal meaning. To do this is on the level of someone mentally referring to Ford every time he uses the word "car" and claiming that all cars are Fords because all those other things aren't true Fords and, therefore, can't be true cars.

[aruanan]

Thanks.

Did you know it's actually within people to be evil without them being "crazy"?

You mean like, or unlike, whichever the case may be, I'm tired of thinking right now--thesis writing--the people who say that anyone who murders must be insane because only someone insane would murder?

[aruanan]

They seem to truly want and expect to be exterminated, and they believe that even if all of them are killed in the process of trying to defeat the West and re-establish their brand of Islam as a dominant force on the world stage, then new generations will follow them and successfully complete the struggle.

Well, they're certainly exemplifying tribalism at its most extreme: considering their own group to be true humanity and good, everything not them to be false humanity and wicked. The proof of the wickedness is our failure to accept their judgment about our wickedness, because if we were righteous we'd agree with them that we are wicked. This mentality is something that in the past existed almost everywhere in the world. I think it's the default condition of the human experience and, were it not for the grace of G-d, we'd never have seen anything like the Western tradition of law that, in its best moments, puts all men of all tribes into the same context.

[aruanan]

Thanks, Mom. Sure. I hope others understand it to be sarcasm. I still haven't heard back from my friend. Wait a second--oh, crap! I knew I was forgetting something.

Let me give the context of this. A friend of mine who teaches high school physics was telling me that he got in trouble with his family (his wife is a school administrator) because in a classroom discussion he said that the current trouble stemming from the WTC was, indeed, a war about religion. I wrote this to cheer him up with some sarcasm. I told him that you can have a conflict and that it can be entirely from the standpoint of religion from one side and not necessarily so from the other.

As I said above in #7, an important consideration that many appear to miss is that while one side can declare a war for purely religious reasons (as Usama already has), the ones against whom they have declared it can resist and counter-attack for reasons having to do with personal security and not directly related to their own religion at all. Both sides don't have to be doing things for the same reason for the war to have been one caused for religious reasons. For instance, when you are robbed at gunpoint and resist by icing the gunman before he can ice you, you're not engaging in the same action for the same reason. You both want your money, but the robber doesn't have a legitimate right to it or to your life or to threaten your life. His attempt to take it for "selfish", criminal reasons, doesn't make your defense of your money and life equally "selfish" and criminal.

And in #13: Someone asked me if we should declare a war on Islam. No, we don't declare a war on Islam just because some Muslims declare a war on us and say that they are doing it for religious reasons. We declare a war on them because of the actual things they've done and still threaten to do to us regardless of the reason that they use to justify their actions to themselves. However, it nevertheless is true that bin Ladin et al., are describing their actions as a holy war of Islam against the infidels. It does NO ONE any good at all to say that this isn't true and that they aren't really doing what they do for the reasons they themselves offer.

All we have to do is tell the rest of the world's Muslims (and everyone else)

1. that how we treat them, or anyone else, won't be based on what they believe but on how they act on the basis of that belief,
2. that they can practice their Islam to their heart's contentment as long as they don't attack us,
3. that the best way they can keep themselves safe (from us) is to disavow the actions of bin Ladin and associates and to help us help them shuffle off these mortal coils and
4. if they do choose to attack us for religious or other reasons, we will be crawling down their throats strictly from a practical standpoint.

[aruanan]

Mind if I send it to one of the English language Japanese newspapers?

No, go ahead. Just remember, 1. aruanan is spelled with a lowercase 'a', and 2. cite FreeRepublic.

[Luis Gonzalez]

BUMP!!! Excellent!!

Bookmarked!!

[RobbyS]

All we have to do is tell the rest of the world's Muslims (and everyone else) 1. that how we treat them, or anyone else, won't be based on what they believe but on how they act on the basis of that belief, 2. that they can practice their Islam to their heart's contentment as long as they don't attack us, 3. that the best way they can keep themselves safe (from us) is to disavow the actions of bin Ladin and associates and to help us help them shuffle off these mortal coils and 4. if they do choose to attack us for religious or other reasons, we will be crawling down their throats strictly from a practical standpoint.

This attitude will take as long to impose on Muslims as it will to make peasants order their lives by the clock, especially since they will always find reasons for doubting our resolve. Lord, look at our intellectuals!

[Mark17]

Namely, if we openly agree with Bin Laden that this is a RELIGIOUS war, then all Muslims, regardless of their sympathies will be forced by Islamic law to come to the aid of their fellow believers.

Give all these Muslims 6 months to a year, and they will. I hope I am wrong, but watch them.

[Gasshog]

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[Mark17]

Well thought out, Willie. Keep your powder dry. It's possible that the balloon may be about to go up.

[aruanan]

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Ha ha ha. But does it come with a proximity-fused warning to duck and cover?