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To: aruanan
the bottom line is I trust GW Bush, and I believe what he and others in his administration are saying about this not being a war about religion, before I believe any (unknown) typing their thoughts and beliefs over the net. I look at the late King Hussein of Jordan, (just for example) and his lovely wife Queen Noor who are Muslim, among others that I have read about and I cannot believe all Muslims are fanatics. I just wonder why some people are continuing to perptetuate a falshood that our President GW Bush is denying. Guess who I will believe first ???
6 posted on 10/08/2001 5:47:07 AM PDT by DreamWeaver
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To: DreamWeaver
I cannot believe all Muslims are fanatics.

"Fanatic" is a loaded and misleading word. Is an American soldier sacrificing his life in defence of his country a fanatic? Or is a person devoting his whole life to help the poor a fanatic?

If you believe that Islam represent the ultimate truth and the God/Allah wants you to fight for the submission of infidels with a sword and you act on it are you a fanatic?

Or if you believe that you should give away everything what you have to the poor and follow Christ are you fanatic?

Or if you believe that getting rich is the ultimate goal and you work 80 hours weeks to achieve this are you a fanatic?

Or if you are zealous physician who works even harder the businessman for little money, are you a fanatic?

I thing that problem is not with the degree of zeal and commitment but with the CONTENT of your beliefs. If you believe in something good and beautiful and you live according to it your life will be good and beautiful. But if your belief in something not so good that of course it is better if you are not a "fanatic".

The most commited Christians try to emulate their Teacher to become meek, compassionate and loving, even to their enemies, to turn their second cheek and return good for evil. They can become monks, nuns or even hermits.

On the other hand the most pious Muslims will try to emulate Muhammad who was waging wars, capturing people, robbing and slaughtering his enemies.

But majority of the people will be lukewarm and "moderate" so the "average" Muslim and Christian will not differ that much.

53 posted on 10/10/2001 8:22:03 AM PDT by A. Pole
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To: DreamWeaver
I can understand your confusion or skepticism.

But I wonder if you've ever traveled to the Middle East?

Or have you talked extensively with Americans who've worked in Saudi Arabia? . . . especially, for example, single men.

1) In much of the Middle East--especially Arab cultures, it is fairly common for two friends to stand virtually nose to nose--VERY CLOSE FACE TO FACE--yelling at each other so vigorously that Americans passing by might think they were ready to come to blows any second. And they, from their standpoint, are not even very emotional--just having a calm chit chat. THEY ARE AN EMOTIONAL PEOPLE--sometimes at their calmest.

Blood feuds can go on and on for generations mostly out of petty pride.

Your norms and standards for emotionalism; radicalism; fierce feelings etc. may not apply as you assume they might for those cultures.

Also, sociologically and psychologically--it is fairly easy for folk on the quiet end of things to flip suddenly to the radical end of things--this is true in almost any group or ism or belief context--but all the more true in emotionally intense cultures.

A wide number of things can trigger such a flip. It can be a personal experience that fosters stronger identification with just one element or aspect; one picture, image, incident, saying, action of a radical leader or incident. It can be a trauma personal, group or national or international. It can be a function of personal isolation, loneliness, a sense of helplessness, depression, despair. Suddenly there's hope by investing in THE CAUSE.

I don't know that Queen Noor is a great example. She leads a rather special life though she seems well informed and in touch with her people.

But take some professor or other professional person in a university town in central U.S. Bible belt. Assume that the professor--male or female--had become moderately good friends with various Christians or whatever in their university town.

Suddenly on the professor's doorstep appears an agent. He notes that in the old country, a relative has been murdered by an Israeli agent or purportedly by a U.S. agent. Or maybe nothing even so personal or dramatic. . . maybe there's just a request for shelter, protection, hiding. . . and the mention of some connection with a trusted relative--perhaps one who's loaned money for education and getting set up in the U.S.

What will the professor do--say no out of hand? I doubt it. Will the professor be vulnerable to being more radicalized in that situation? Probably. Will the professor be likely to become a real RADICAL? It depends on a LOT of factors--only ONE of which is the manner in which the U.S. Government handles itself in the current war on terrorism. But it's likely to be easier than one might think.

You are probably somewhat influenced by the difficulty with which Christians are changed into radical Christians in the U.S. or the ease that atheists and agnostics are changed into radical Christians. That's not a good comparison for many reasons. The Islamic subculture is very different on many counts. Their psychology individual and group is very different on many counts.

63 posted on 10/10/2001 9:45:59 AM PDT by Quix
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