Posted on 04/26/2002 11:03:22 AM PDT by history_matters
I consider giving to Christ's Church the same as giving to God. So I will continue to give with a joyful heart. The Church will always be the beautiful Bride of Christ and it is a priviledge to help support Her.
They will get the message,sooner than later.
You can divert your donations directly to the charities who use your donations more wisely than payouts to criminal Priests destroying childrens' lives.
There seem to be a great many evil men right now who interrupt your cash flow to God. They are using it for nefarious purposes including giving a stipend of $3oo per month to the Homosexual Predator Porter while he is in prison. They also send it to predator priests who are retired. Great guys aren't they?
This would be the worst move yet, if it happens.
Between Father Neuhaus and Maciel's detractors, I will pick Father Neuhaus.
And at the same time a Massachusetts judge is criticizing another judge who allowed documents to be released about Christopher Reardon, a truly disgusting pervert. He is a former youth worker in a Catholic parish in MA who is in prison for his multiple crimes.
Unfortunately, the Church does not believe in democracy or letting the sun shine on its problems. As a recoverying Catholic, I can say the following...it is a corrupt institution, bludgeonimg its followers into submission by claiming compassion for the poor and the dispossessed. The Church does do good works around the world, but it also exploits those they claim to help. That stance has a familiar ring to it, does it not?
This desrves further investigation, and I hope the secular media will pick up on it. These victims are entitled to justice. And soon.
From ABC NEWS:
Maciel is alleged to have molested some of the young men under his control, some 50 years ago, at the well-manicured seminary and headquarters of the Legion of Christ, a few miles from the Vatican. It is hidden behind high walls and a steel gate that warns of a watch dog inside.
"He pushed my hand onto his penis. And I didn't know anything about masturbation," Juan Vaca, who was first abused when he was 11 years old, told ABCNEWS. "And he says, 'You don't know how to do it. Let me show you.' And he gets my penis himself and starts to masturbate me. I was in shock."
Now 65 years old and a psychology professor at Mercy College in Dobbs Ferry, N.Y., Vaca, the former superior of the Legion of Christ in Orange, Conn., says he was one of some 30 boys abused by Macial during his studies at the Legion in Rome.
Vaca also told ABCNEWS how he was instructed to bring other boys from their bedrooms to Maciel's room. Vaca said Macial had different boys visit his rooms on different nights. "In some instances, two were together with him — myself and another one," he said.
Vaca said Maciel rewarded him with special privileges, such as a private meeting with Pope Pius XII, who served as pope from 1939 to 1958. Maciel always assured Vaca he was doing nothing wrong. When Vaca admitted concerns of committing a sin, Vaca said Macial absolved him from his sin "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
He told him not to worry and to forget about it. But Vaca said he could not forget.
Eight Men's Allegations Went Unanswered
Vaca is not alone. He is one of eight former students, now all in their 60s, who have signed sworn affidavits submitted to the Vatican that they were abused by Maciel.
When they were members of the Legion, the accusers were devout followers of Marciel. But for the last eight years, they have been trying to get the Vatican to listen or even acknowledge their detailed allegations of sexual abuse at the hands of Father Maciel. They say they have not heard a response from the Vatican.
In 1997, they went public, telling their story to The Hartford Courant, a newspaper in Connecticut.
Courant reporters Jerry Renner and Jason Berry, who wrote the story, repeated the allegations to the Vatican, yet received no response from the Vatican. However, later that year, the pope took a step that surprised them.
Maciel was appointed to represent the pope at a meeting of Latin American bishops, which Renner and Berry took as a clear signal the Vatican had ignored the allegations.
'He's Untouchable'
"I would say he has the pope eating out of his hand. Who is going to touch him no matter what he does?" said J. Paul Lennon, a member of the Legion of Christ for 23 years, who has since left and has been helping those claiming to be victims. "He's untouchable."
Lennon said Macial is a master of Vatican politics: "He's worked with several popes, knows the inner workings, knows monsignors, knows cardinals, knows maybe the men who are really in power, knows that so well, so well."
Then, four years ago, some of the men tried a last ditch effort, taking the unusual step of filing a lawsuit in the Vatican's secretive court, seeking Macial's excommunication.
Once again they laid out their evidence, but it was another futile effort — an effort the men say was blocked by one of the most powerful cardinals in the Vatican.
The accusers say Vatican-based Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who heads the Vatican office to safeguard the faith and the morals of the church, quietly made the lawsuit go away and shelved it. There was no investigation and the accusers weren't asked a single question or asked for a statement.
He was appointed by the pope to investigate the entire sex abuse scandal in the church in recent days. But when approached by ABCNEWS in Rome last week with questions of allegations against Maciel, Ratzinger became visibly upset and actually slapped this reporter's hand.
"Come to me when the moment is given," Ratzinger told ABCNEWS, "not yet."
"Cardinal Ratzinger is sheltering Maciel, protecting him," said Berry, who expressed concerns that no response was being given to the allegations against the man charged with sex abuse. "These men knelt and kissed the ring of Cardinal Ratzinger when they filed the case in Rome. And a year-and-a-half later, he takes those accusations and aborts them, just stuffs them."
Maciel Denies Allegations
As for Father Maciel, he would not agree to speak with ABCNEWS this week in Rome, although he issued an emphatic, written denial of the allegations, in which he strongly denied the allegations of what he called "repulsive behavior."
The story sounds like my fallen-away catholic neighbor who has some kind of sex problem. He tried to get his daughter to engage in the same behavior the priest is accused of doing. Nobody cares. Just people in the know keep their kids away from him. Women need to be careful around him, too, they can take my word for that. That's what we've come to. If I were his wife I would be so ashamed I would divorce him if I could and the church probably wouldn't think much of that either. Imagine living with a husband like that! She can't stand him but she's dependent on him all the same because he does things for her around the house and she doesn't have as good an income as he does. I think she would stay with him no matter what. She is in deep denial. A lot of christians live in deep denial all the time about some of the ugly things going on.
I had never imagined incest, naive as I was. My fallen-away catholic divorced girlfriend took in a young girl through social services. The family was catholic and the mother was dying of cancer and the father had sex one of the daughters so she was taken away. She turned out to be, shall we say, very sexually active from then on. She probably seduced him people would say.
Attributing it to the devil could be a little simplistic but I don't have any other good explanations. This sort of thing is so alien to me; even some pagans have more decency.
Father Neuhaus seems to think the victims are lying. I think someone ought to take the accusations seriously enough to try to find out the truth of the matter.
If they don't, I'll be forever haunted wondering what else they are covering up and so will a lot of other people, catholics and noncatholics alike. Personally I think they have habitually covered up all sorts of things of a criminal nature all through the centuries because there were no checks and balances of any sort. I wouldn't have wanted to think that way but circumstances forced me to start looking at lots of things differently.
I read Richard Neuhaus's article. He is biased, since his priestly career has become closely entwined with the Legionaries. He is being loyal to his associates, and also a little naive in his knee-jerk acceptance of Maciel's denials.
Maciel is called "The Old Fox". He knows Vatican politics. He knows how to play the game. Did you notice that the mambers of his cult are all strikingly goodlooking men. Since when have seminary candidates been chosen because they look like movie stars?
On the other hand, we have the alleged victims. They have gone through the traditional canonical route of bringing the matter before Vatican authorities. They have been rebuffed over and over again. What would you do if you were one of them? I would take my case to the court of public opinion.
The victims are all scholarly conservative professional men. They don't need money. What then would be their motive? Why, as fathers and grandfathers, would they allow their private wounds and emotional injuries to be paraded in so public a fashion on ABC? I believe them.
Neuhaus uses all the propaganda weapons I have seen used against the Massachusetts victims: call them crazy; bring up the fact that these things happened years ago; assassinate their character by charging them with some nefarious plot against the Legionaries (paranoid in the extreme); attribute venal motives to them, etc. etc. etc.
It really really disturbs me that the Pope is so close to two high-profile pedophiles: his good friend the ex-archbishop of Posnan, who has resigned in disgrace;and now Maciel, the sly old fox, who feasts on young chickens. By protecting such men, the Holy Father is holding his own past up to scrutiny. After all, he was an actor, and we know they are all...???
The gall of these bishops and cardinals is unmitigated and relentless!
Read all about the Scranton scandal here:
I am thinking of sending my pledge card to Jim Timlin along with a roll of pennies and a note to "stick it where the sun don't shine!"
Sorry about your arthritic fingers. My brain is becoming arthritic ;-). It would probably be better if I left this hornet's nest alone.
I read Richard Neuhaus's article. He is biased, since his priestly career has become closely entwined with the Legionaries. He is being loyal to his associates, and also a little naive in his knee-jerk acceptance of Maciel's denials.
I learned not to take everything priests say at face value. Sometimes I have been wrong. It didn't take me long to figure out there was a good ole boy network. Everybody has an agenda. I've seen what happens to priests who buck the establishment. Most often they are conservatives of high integrity. They have been put on hold. Some have been persecuted and ordered into mental health evaluation.
Maciel is called "The Old Fox". He knows Vatican politics. He knows how to play the game. Did you notice that the mambers of his cult are all strikingly goodlooking men. Since when have seminary candidates been chosen because they look like movie stars?
No, I hadn't noticed they were good looking as I haven't seen any pictures of them. Good looks are an advantage in the church as well as in the world so I wouldn't raise a red flag solely based on that.
On the other hand, we have the alleged victims. They have gone through the traditional canonical route of bringing the matter before Vatican authorities. They have been rebuffed over and over again. What would you do if you were one of them? I would take my case to the court of public opinion.
If it were me, I would try to get myself and my family as far away from that arena and influence as is possible on this planet, unless I felt that I owed my fellow man to put up a fight. Those men are risking everything to come forward now, so unless their motive is money, one must assume they are doing God's will for his inscrutable purposes. There is no real justice for that sort of abuse, at least in this world.
The victims are all scholarly conservative professional men. They don't need money. What then would be their motive? Why, as fathers and grandfathers, would they allow their private wounds and emotional injuries to be paraded in so public a fashion on ABC? I believe them.
They have little to gain and almost everything to lose but peace. The strategy of going public is a concept alien to me as I tend to be very private. The only thing that could persuade me to go public would be to open the eyes of gullible people. I don't think I could be bought but I hope I don't have to face that temptation.
Neuhaus uses all the propaganda weapons I have seen used against the Massachusetts victims: call them crazy; bring up the fact that these things happened years ago; assassinate their character by charging them with some nefarious plot against the Legionaries (paranoid in the extreme); attribute venal motives to them, etc. etc. e
I'm beginning to see everything as propaganda. It does have an effect on me but I think what I think and believe what I believe and don't care to have anyone constantly reprogramming me to believe what they think I should believe. I'm very conservative about morality and basic faith but I rebel when it is combined with anyone else's agenda or politics.
It really really disturbs me that the Pope is so close to two high-profile pedophiles: his good friend the ex-archbishop of Posnan, who has resigned in disgrace;and now Maciel, the sly old fox, who feasts on young chickens. By protecting such men, the Holy Father is holding his own past up to scrutiny. After all, he was an actor, and we know they are all...???
I'm very disturbed by catholics who are so enamored by the pope that they lose their objectivity. I know what happens to anyone who takes on the Vatican, rightly or wrongly. The good who take on the Vatican lose and the evil ones who take on the Vatican come out smelling like roses . . . in this life . . . and to themselves. I've come to mistrust everything that goes on in that place. It reeks of (I don't want to say) . . . but I do listen to their pronouncements about morality and do assent with my intellect in most things that matter to me. There are a few so-called faithful catholics I took on in another newsgroup. I have to tell you that some of them are whacked out. They march lock-step with the pope, so they say, and then they come up with some of the most ludicrous garbage you could imagine. They are dangerous and need to be outed and avoided. Catholics don't understand just how vulnerable they are, as I was vulnerable. You are so afraid to be different. You are so afraid of losing your salvation. You are afraid of thinking for yourself because that could mean if you choose to follow your conscience, you can lose your family, the only community and social ties you know, your sanity, and possibly your salvation.
What kind of God would deny salvation to someone who refuses to go to church because some priest abused them? These people have been so injured and maligned and still they remain Catholic. I think a few just become inactive. The church has that much of a powerful hold on people.
I don't know what else to say. Are you catholic?
The people I most admire in this world are the ones who dare to stand up for what is right. My time for now is about up so I can't refine my comments as I ought.
In all the stories I've read the Cardinals and the bishops are deeply involved and seem to be homosexual or agreeable to homosexual activities of their clergy.
My gut feeling is that the only way to get a hold of the problem is for the Faithful to organize and stop all donations of money to these fools or Satanists in charge.
Law who seems to be the catalyst for this desecration of the church is now giving orders to stop any organizing among the faithful.
No matter where you look the Church and it's clergy reek of Homosexuals.
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