Cardinal's words on gay priests surprise scholars

The Philadelphia Inquirer ^ | Fri, May. 03, 2002 | JIM REMSEN

[Diago]

If we can get our leaders to act couragously, the attacks on the Church will be ten times more vicious than this piece of garbage. Way to go Cardinal!

[RobbyS]

And How do you know they are celibate ? For that matter how do you know hetro priests are celibate ? The historical consequence of straight priests who are not celibate is bastard children and concubines. The consequences if a gay priesthood is open particupation in gay culture, rampant AIDs, and now, this plagaue of pederasty. I prefer bastard children and concubines.

[victim soul]

Thanks History matters for the post

Cicero, I can hardly wait for your prediction to come true. We know that Christ can turn evil into a greater good.

I just want my Church and country to be better for my kids and unborn grandchildren.

[uncbob]

Look up Richard Sipes Book, "Sex, Priests and Power" where he states of 50 Gay Priests interviewed by a Priest only 4 were celibate and 22% had 500 sexual partners or more.

Does he give any statistics for heterosexual priests

[Romulus]

At one point I believed it to be the natural choice for a gay man who was serious about his Catholicism to become a priest

But don't you see? This says so much more about you and your view of sexuality than your understanding of the priesthood and the mystery of vocation. You are never going to understand Catholicism till you abandon this Career Counselor's view of the priesthood, as something chosen pragmatically, to fit the man to the job -- in this case, the idea that the priesthood belongs to men who're asexual or sexually dysfunctional.

You have a view of the priesthood as a class of men that's fundamentally aberrant. You have a view of the priesthood as the refuge of men who're intrinsically disordered, inadequate, or somehow lacking -- not necessarily in a viscious way, but nevetheless pitiful, incomplete, and unmanly.

As a celibate man no doubt I take too strong a personal interest in the subject, but to maintain that men are fundamentally (no pun) classified according to a taxonomy of sex -- that the only meaningful measure of a man is taken horizontally -- is to degrade him to the objectified status of anonymous Australian (or was it Phillipine?) comfort girls cheering the arrival of the fleet.

[Jim Noble]

>>What's IS the difference, Robby, if they are both celibate? How do you know who is gay and who is straight in the priesthood, if they are both celibate? <<

This question, very well put, is the heart of the matter.

Prior to the "delisting" of homosexuality as a mental disorder by the APA in 1972, the question "what IS the difference" was thought to be clear.

Now, sinkspur, you and many others have found clarity on the other side of the question-"there IS no difference".

I honestly am not sure about this-but you may be wrong.

[sinkspur]

The historical consequence of straight priests who are not celibate is bastard children and concubines. The consequences if a gay priesthood is open particupation in gay culture, rampant AIDs, and now, this plagaue of pederasty. I prefer bastard children and concubines.

And I'm sure the "bastard" children appreciate your preference.

If you prefer bastard children and concubines, then I'm sure you'd prefer optional celibacy to alleviate that.

[uncbob]

I prefer bastard children and concubines

You are assuming that birth control doesn't exist and that a hetro priest would have a steady woman if he isn't celebate
I know for a fact that that doesn't have to be the case

[mickie]

God Bless Cardinal Bevilacqua bump.

[browardchad]

If one defines oneself by one's sexuality ("gay") one obviously doesn't belong in the celibate life. Many, if not most, gays prefer to define themselves -- meaning their entire persona, their souls, their psyches, the fullness of being -- by their sexuality.

Logically, such a definition is the antithesis of the sacrifice of carnal love (celibacy) and dedication to service of others that is required of the priest -- for the good of the faith, and the faithful, he is called to serve and protect.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered" and "contrary to the natural law," while urging tolerance toward gays and saying they are "called to chastity."

This "call to chastity" is a prohibition not to commit acts "contrary to the natural law." It is not an affirmation that homosexuals, since they are called to chastity should be admitted to the priesthood.

[maica]

I do not remember which priest said it on a TV interview - after the Vatican meeting of the American Cardinals - but it made sense to me -

A homosexual is a man who defines himself by his sexual preference above all other facets of his life.It is this focus on his sexuality that would make him unsuitable. Heterosexuals do not put 'heterosexual' first on their identity list.

A candidate for the priesthood would not have to 'prove' that he is attracted to women. He would just be a 'man' who wanted to serve God in His ministry.

[RobbyS]

There have always been lechers in the priesthood, but I you take the attitude that--oh, well, they've changed--then yopu are buying trouble. I believing in "tipping points " if you havbe up to a certain percentage of people who exhibit certain nehavior, then they are tolerable. Beyond that, and you change the dynamics of the group. I few thungs in a basketball league, and you can handle them; too many and get get riots. When the priests who prefered mem were few AND stayed deeply in the closet, then no problem. But now they have have become numberous and are openly gay or suspiciously tolerant of open gay behavior, and we do have a problem: too many pederasts! It's like we had too many alcoholic priests and we let them drive buses full of kids.

[Notwithstanding]

"theologiccans" may be more apt (note the my pselling change)...I have also used the term "theologentsia"...

[irishjuggler]

It's not necessarily possible to screen out 100% of homosexuals, but I'd say that if they're effeminate or admit homosexuality, then reject them. Eighty percent of the time that'll probably do the trick. Bevilacqua is right. The seminaries badly need to drop this modernist view that homosexuality is perfectly analogous to heterosexuality and that what's true about heterosexuals is also true about homosexuals.

[sinkspur]

Many, if not most, gays prefer to define themselves -- meaning their entire persona, their souls, their psyches, the fullness of being -- by their sexuality.

Is this, as I suspect, your gut feel, or do you have some statistics to back this up?

This "call to chastity" is a prohibition not to commit acts "contrary to the natural law." It is not an affirmation that homosexuals, since they are called to chastity should be admitted to the priesthood.

Is fornication contrary to natural law? Are reformed fornicators called to the priesthood?

Does God only work with virgins, or can He call sinners to serve Him? Peter denied that He even knew Jesus AFTER he was called.

[Angelique]

The Cardinal brings great hope to reform in the Churchs position in this matter. The entire homosexual agenda is to invade our beloved institutions, as witnessed with the Boy Scouts, our schools, the Salvation Army for example.

It has been proven that there is no "special" gene. Homosexuality is created from either environment or choice. I don't know the stats on pediophilia, but NAMBLA is a start. Also, someone has mentioned AIDS. I wonder what the stats are on this among priests?

EdReform has many good links on homosexuality. Ed, maybe you could give us some?

[RobbyS]

I think that is the distinction that Father Neuhaus made on Sunday: A "gay" is a person whose whole personality is involved in his homosexual life. We CAN distinguish him from the guys of uncertain sexuality who has experimented but can take it or leave it.

[uncbob]

or can He call sinners to serve Him?

Well you can always ask St Agustine of hippo ?

[mississippi red-neck]

How do you know who is gay and who is straight

Seems like the church's way to find out is to ordain them.