Sex, torture and erotic electrification in America's 'gay' churches

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Thursday, July 18, 2002 | By Stephen Bennett

[WKB]

A primary symptom of those in the asylum is the belief that everyone else has a warped perspective.

Redneck version
I'm alright! The whole world is screwd up!

[F16Fighter]

"Us adults are trying to have a debate here."

LOL -- And what a pathetic excuse for a "debate."

Tell ya what -- After you're done with your pretentiously assinine "debating" of the merits of gay-church sanctioned "fisting" and "bondage," perhaps you can go on defending more sophisticated and poignant issues like the "right" of gay churches to also preach the Gospel while lying in their own fecal matter.

[F16Fighter]

:-D

[WyldKard]

Tell ya what -- After you're done with your pretentiously assinine "debating" of the merits of gay-church sanctioned "fisting" and "bondage," perhaps you can go on defending more sophisticated and poignant issues like the "right" of gay churches to also preach the Gospel while lying in their own fecal matter.

Well, if you had actually bothered to read my posts, you'd seen I never actually said "Yay fisting". It was more like "If the church allows it, and no kids are at these workshops, and they aren't actually having sex, I'm not happy with the idea of it being at a church, but big deal."

Of course, the discussion is pretty much concluded. If nothing else, I learned who the good debaters are, the ones who can make good points without resorting to constant abuse and name calling, and which ones...well..can't really seem to control themselves.

Do let us all know when you've hit puberty, alright? :)

[F16Fighter]

"I'm not happy with the idea of it [perverted rites in the name of God] being at church, but big deal."

Simply incredulous...

Tell me something -- do you feel a nation's morality is in anyway tied to it's greatness? OR is it irrelevant??

[WyldKard]

"I'm not happy with the idea of it [perverted rites in the name of God] being at church, but big deal."

Oh for crying the hell out loud, now you're just making sh*t up, and putting words in my mouth. PLEASE show me in the article where these sex workshops are being done "in the name of God". You won't find it, because it isn't in there. The Church merely lent it's space out to a third pary, but it's not like this wacked-out crap is going on as part and parcle of it's regular religious services. Unless I misread the article, that is.(willing to make a concession I might have.) It's not like when I go to play Unreal Tournament at the space the Methodist church let us rent out every third Saturday that I'm gibbing people "in the name of Jesus Christ". That would be just plain silly.

Tell me something -- do you feel a nation's morality is in anyway tied to it's greatness? OR is it irrelevant??

Who's morality are we talking about? Just because someone likes kinky sex in the bedroom doesn't mean they aren't a moral, decent person in the most important matters. Just as someones professing to be a Christian doesn't instantly make them a just and moral person. I think the amount that Governments respect the individuals rights has a lot more to do with greatness than anything else.

So yes, a nation that can follow certain absolute morals, and respect the rights endowed by our Creator, is naturally going to do better than a group that doesn't...say, America vs. The Middle East. I just don't see dripping some candle wax on someone in the privacy of their own bedroom as tantamount to the destruction of the Republic. If I were you, I'd worry a little less about little things like that, and focus on the Big Picture: Like how the Federal Government has been stedily erroding away the Constitution since the days of FDR. Reverting to Socialism, that's what's killing this country more than anything....

[EdReform]

BTTT

[dadwags]

I understand that you seem to take the "Libertarian" position, that anyone can do anything to anyone, as long as it doesn't endanger or harm YOU , or, maybe harm a n0n-consenting adult, or child . Would that be accurate ?
However, many of those homosexual practices do damage to people and spread diseases . So, as far as that church is concerned, I'll stay away from it, and any known (to me) members, thank you .
I really think there could possibly be some public health issues involved .

[EdReform]

Also posted here

[WyldKard]

I understand that you seem to take the "Libertarian" position, that anyone can do anything to anyone, as long as it doesn't endanger or harm YOU , or, maybe harm a n0n-consenting adult, or child . Would that be accurate ?

Acurate to a point. I consider myself more a Constitutionalist, than a member of the LP (which has some good ideas, but also has some god-awful goofy ones.) If you must call me a "Libertarian", call me a small-l libertarian.

But there is no maybe about the harm against a non-consenting adult or child. If you are doing something against a non-consenting adult or child (minors can't consent, as far as I'm concerned.), then that harms society. Rape, murder, theft, etc etc. The usurpation of the inaliable rights of one person initiated by another individual (or group of individuals) is always wrong.

However, I fail to see how a person smoking a joint in the privacy of their own home, or having kinky sex in the privacy of their own home is really the business of any apparatus of Government. Now if said person gets stoned and drives a car, thats the only thing that should be illegal is driving while under the influence, not the actual act of getting stoned.

However, many of those homosexual practices do damage to people and spread diseases .

If gay people are having gay sex, and getting AIDS from it..they knew the risks..they should have to take personal responsibility for what they did to themselves. I mean, what are you going to do: pass more and more laws to protect gay people from themselves?

Sadly, everyone has the right to self-destruction. If I go and buy a bottle of Draino and drink it down and kill myself, thats my own stupid fault, and there shouldn't be a Government agency that goes around trying to prohibit Draino, or make people get a license for it, so that they can protect idiots who want to make a Draino Martini for themselves.

Now, as far as I can see, the blood supply is very well protected against AIDS at this point in time...maybe I'm wrong, but that's the general impression I'm under, so other than that, I fail to see how allowing gay people to have sex in the privacy of their own homes is really signalling the death of the Republic. And I don't think that it's just gay people who are into spanking each other, or dripping candle wax on each other, or zapping eachs others privates with some electricity...

So, as far as that church is concerned, I'll stay away from it, and any known (to me) members, thank you .

I strongly encourage you to do this, as is your right and responsibility.

I really think there could possibly be some public health issues involved

Okay..I'll bite. Like what? I could maybe see the gay sex angle involved, but people flogging each other in the bedroom, and dripping candle wax on each other in the bedroom? I mean, honestly.

Lets face facts, the moment we begin to ban certain private behaviors "for the good of Society" we start to flirt dangerously with Socialism. And before someone starts building a strawman, there is a HUGE difference between building a nuclear bomb in your basement, and kinky sex in your bedroom.

I mean, whats next? Will we have "Religious Police" going door to door, checking up on people? That idea is really popular over in Saudi Arabia. Or maybe next, we'll have a Government program that encourages service people with access to private homes to rat people out to the Government? (Oh wait...if TIPS passes, we'll have that anyhow...)

Truely, Socialists, and their desire to protect Society from itself is the monster destroying the Republic. The "politically correct movement" is the ultimate development of this brand of Socialism, but it's sad to see when Right-wingers fall prey to Socialist thought as well...

[afraidfortherepublic]

...a Church has a right to do what it wants

Who sez? A church does NOT have the right to do whatever it wants when it crosses into the realm of assault on the members (dripping hot wax, electric probes, etc.)

[afraidfortherepublic]

I just don't see dripping some candle wax on someone in the privacy of their own bedroom...<p<Why would anyone want to do that to someone they love? Your argument is really sick.

[WyldKard]

Who sez? A church does NOT have the right to do whatever it wants when it crosses into the realm of assault on the members (dripping hot wax, electric probes, etc.)

First off, it wasn't the Church doing it perse, it was several different third party groups. The Church was just allowing them the use of their space.

Second off, all those people who attended those workshops did so of their own free will. They participated of their own free will. If they were coerced into it, they would report it to the police. If they are unable to, and you have secret, mysterious evidence I don't know about that proves it was coersion, go to the damn police with it. Sheesh!

[WyldKard]

Why would anyone want to do that to someone they love? Your argument is really sick.

If my wife finds the sensation of a wax candle that produces relatively low heat as it melts being dripped over her back, then why shouldn't I want to do it? If it doesn't harm her, and she wants me to do it as a bedroom game, why not? Just because it doesn't punch your clock is no reason to brand others doing consensual stuff, not terribly damaging stuff in their own private bedrooms as perverts who need to be locked up "for their own protection". You CAN do a lot of this stuff with some relative degree of saftey, you know. What, do you think this is Saudi Arabia or old-school Afganistan? Maybe you would be more comfortable there?

Or if my wife finds it a turn on for me to spank her, or flog her, who are you to judge what we do in the privacy of our own homes?

Now, if it's a situation where the wife hands me a knife, and says "Stab me, that turns me on", that is obviously quite different. I wouldn't want my wife to hurt herself, and I certainly won't be a party to helping her. And I don't believe that someone can consent to being killed, except in some extrodinarily rare circumstances.

You sound like a theocratic Socialist, who thinks its just fine to spy on people in their own homes, and whose beliefs must mirror your own precisely.

But what I might hypothetically do is irrelevant here. The point of this post is that a Christian Church is renting out it's space to other groups of people so they can do Sex Workshops. The question is: Is this an acceptable thing for a Christian Church (or any religious institution) to be doing, even if they aren't directly sponsoring it? And my answer is: No, probably not, although they can do what they want to do, as long as they are made to deal with the consequences of their actions.

[WOSG]

"Otherwise, to me, this guy comes off as a Socialist Theocrat that wants to pass more laws telling us what we can and can not do in the privacy of our own bedrooms."

Er, you mean the 'privacy of their own public houses of Worship.' None of these 'get togethers' were in a bedroom, they were in a 'church'.

I think the main problem is zoning ... is this area zoned to allow bordellos, meat markets, and nudist colonies?

[WOSG]

"Lets face facts, the moment we begin to ban certain private behaviors "for the good of Society" we start to flirt dangerously with Socialism."

oh puhleeze. Child abuse in a bedroom is private.
We should allow that?

Any behavior getting outlawed is "socialism"???

Anyway, socialism refers to makin the means of production owned by the Government. How is telling people not to engage in group anal sex orgies in churches got anything do with that?

"However, I fail to see how a person smoking a joint in the privacy of their own home,"

This was in a church, not a home.

"And before someone starts building a strawman, ... Will we have "Religious Police" going door to door, checking up on people? "

No need to build a strawman, you already have.

Apparently you can brook no shades of gray between ignoring/accepting this behavior and having Gestapo tactics to stamp it out. How very black-n-white of you, but ...

Consider the possibility that just because you have a legal right to do something, doesnt stop it from being appalling appalling and something worth condemning.

[BeerSwillr]

~Zot~

[WOSG]

"These folks might as well be Unitarians if they are going to do this kind of thing in their church, I suppose..."

LOL ... definite note of agreement on that!!

IMHO, this is basically a pagan institution with a "Christian" label on it.

[hosepipe]

America is deporting GOD, instead of illegal aliens... Can a nation long survive with that kind of logic..... Yes it can.... but survive as what!..?

[I_Love_My_Husband]

ping