Posted on 08/05/2002 7:04:45 PM PDT by DeaconBenjamin
U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell faces the delicate task of promoting the policies of the Bush administration while reassuring Asia that Washington has its interests in mind. In this exclusive interview, Powell describes how he sees the region's toughest problems
United States Secretary of State Colin Powell on July 26 began his most extensive trip to Asia since the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington. Hitting eight countries in eight days, Powell arrived with a message: American foreign policy is not unilateralist, nor is it single-minded in its war on terrorism.
In an exclusive interview in Bangkok with REVIEW Deputy Editor David Plott, Powell paints a picture of an American foreign policy that is a far cry from the roughshod unilateralism that has provoked so much international criticism of President George W. Bush.
No doubt, many observers in Asia hope Powell truly speaks for the Bush administration. The trip comes at a time when he is under continued pressure in Washington from hardliners who see him as too willing to balance American interests with those of America's allies and adversaries.
Powell doesn't see it that way. In the interview, he explains the political minefields through which American foreign policy must navigate to wage its war on terrorism without undermining support in Asia. In doing so, he also underscores the interest the U.S. has in remaining engaged in a range of trouble spots, from Kashmir to Pyongyang.
His first stops, in India and Pakistan on July 27-28, brought him to the epicentre of nuclear anxiety in the region. The long-running dispute between India and Pakistan over Kashmir threatened earlier this year to bring the two nuclear-armed countries to war. Powell met with the leaders of both countries, but came away with no concrete agreement to bring the two together. Powell acknowledged that it would take a long-term effort by the U.S. to help the two neighbouring countries bridge their differences over Kashmir. (See article on page 17.)
Powell headed next to Southeast Asia, where he was scheduled to attend a meeting of the Regional Forum of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations in Brunei on July 31-August 1. Significantly, he included stops in Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia and the Philippines, in what could be seen as a high-profile move to underline the importance of Southeast Asia as a second front--after South Asia--in the war against terror.
But even in Southeast Asia Powell faces a difficult balancing act, as domestic political issues surrounding Muslim populations in many of these countries become entangled in the hunt for Al Qaeda. While Asean foreign ministers declared they would cooperate with the U.S. in fighting terrorism, in Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim country, there are growing worries that the U.S. is more interested in seeing the government crack down on Islamic militants than in promoting democracy and human rights. Fuelling these worries are moves in the U.S. Congress to resume limited military-to-military ties with Indonesia, whose armed forces stand accused of human-rights abuses from East Timor to Aceh. Powell, however, insists the U.S. has no intention of backtracking on its commitment to human rights, and said this was a message he would convey to President Megawati Sukarnoputri.
The meeting of Asean's Regional Forum in Brunei--which includes the foreign ministers from China, Japan, and North and South Korea--also provided Powell with a rare opportunity for the U.S. to re-engage North Korea. Powell met briefly with North Korean Foreign Minister Paek Nam Sun, discussing the nature of future talks. Here, too, America's chief diplomat faced the delicate task of supporting South Korea's "Sunshine" policy of engagement, while ensuring that a member of Bush's "axis of evil" is held to account for seeking to develop weapons of mass destruction, and other sins.
SHOULD THE UNITED STATES BE MORE ENGAGED IN RESOLVING THE CONFLICT IN KASHMIR? The conflict in Kashmir has gone on for 55 years now and ultimately it will have to be resolved by the two parties dealing with each other directly. I think the United States will play a very helpful role in creating conditions where the two sides will talk to one another in a serious way about Kashmir.
In my recent visit to both countries [India and Pakistan], I reinforced the fact that we see each of them as a strong partner, and not in the hyphenated sense. We don't always deal with one because there's a problem with the other. I think we've persuaded them that it isn't a zero sum. Because we do something for Pakistan it doesn't mean we take something away from India, and vice versa. And because we enjoy that strong partnership and relationship with both Pakistan and India, then I think we can be helpful in ultimately getting a dialogue going between the two sides on Kashmir.
HAVE YOU TRIED TO ENCOURAGE BOTH SIDES TO ALLOW THE U.S. TO PLAY A BIGGER ROLE? I think both sides are willing to have the U.S. play a role. It's important, though, for the U.S. not to try to insert itself as the negotiator or the intermediary or broker. There's a long history of failure in trying to do that. But I think we can play a role because both sides look to us as a superpower friend who can play a role in creating conditions where a dialogue between the two sides can take place.
DOES THE U.S. KNOW WHERE THE NUCLEAR ASSETS OF BOTH COUNTRIES ARE? IF THINGS WENT TO THE BRINK AND THERE WERE A FEAR OF NUCLEAR EXCHANGE, AS THERE WAS EARLIER THIS YEAR, IS THE U.S. PREPARED TO TAKE OUT THE NUCLEAR ASSETS OF PAKISTAN? Oh, I wouldn't get into those kinds of intelligence or operational matters. Let's just say that when two nations are armed with nuclear weapons and they start down the road toward war, this is the time for the international community to get involved, and we did in spades. And it's been a major, major priority for me and for President Bush and his administration to keep them from getting any closer. I think we've succeeded in stopping the momentum that was building and now we're slowly moving them back in the other direction. It's going to take a little bit more time. President Musharraf says he's committed to ending and has ended all cross-border infiltration. The Indians don't see that happening yet. We can't confirm it yet.
WHAT ABOUT THE U.S. INTELLIGENCE ON THAT? Our best information as of today, late July let's say, is that there has been a reduction in cross-border infiltration, but I cannot say with any confidence at this point that it's all been stopped.
THE WAR AGAINST TERRORISM HAS ALTERED THE POLITICAL CALCULUS IN SOUTHEAST ASIA. DO YOU THINK THE U.S. IS AT RISK OF FORFEITING ITS LEADERSHIP ROLE IN THE BATTLE FOR HUMAN RIGHTS AND PROMOTING DEMOCRACY IN PLACES SUCH AS INDONESIA? No, not at all. The United States will not step back from its strong commitment to human rights and to encourage all of our friends to practise the highest standards of human-rights behaviour. It's part of our value system, and frankly it's a matter of our law as well. But I think we have demonstrated to all the nations in Southeast Asia that terror is a threat to all of us. We need to link our law-enforcement efforts and our intelligence efforts and our response efforts, and I think the United States has the leadership role to play. We saw it most vividly in the Philippines when we provided military support to the Philippine armed forces.
With respect to Indonesia, I think they are now working with us in a very very positive way to deal with this kind of threat. Initially, right after 9/11, the Indonesians, the largest Muslim nation in the world, had to step carefully, but I think increasingly they understand the danger in terrorism and are working with us in a very very effective way. Now, we also say to our Indonesian friends that we understand that you have challenges in your own country such as Aceh and that you have to deal with these challenges. But you have to make sure that you do it in a way that does not alienate the population and does not violate basic standards of human rights.
THERE HAVE BEEN SOME MOVES TO IMPROVE MILITARY TIES TO INDONESIA. THAT IS OF SOME CONCERN GIVEN THE HUMAN-RIGHTS RECORD OF THE INDONESIAN MILITARY. WHAT IS THE MESSAGE YOU'LL BE CARRYING TO PRESIDENT MEGAWATI? I will say to Mrs. Megawati and to others, we do want a good relationship with the Indonesians in all categories, to include military to military, but our Congress demands that when we engage in these kinds of exchanges, especially military, we have to do it in a way that is consistent with our value system.
I think we also at the same time have to be careful just because we might have a problem with a particular country, when we cut them off from certain kinds of military-to-military cooperation, such as international military educational training funding, which brings their officers to United States schools where they can learn about the way in which a military force should operate within a democratic system. Does that serve our long-term interest, to cut them off from that kind of exposure? I will be discussing this with Mrs. Megawati and others. We're reviewing our programmes now to see what is appropriate to restart.
THE CHINESE HAVE EXPRESSED SOME CONCERN ABOUT WHAT THEY PERCEIVE TO BE MIXED SIGNALS ON THE QUESTION OF TAIWAN. CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE STATE DEPARTMENT'S VIEW ON TAIWAN IS? With respect to Taiwan, there's only one administration view and we all express it in pretty much the same way. We support our One China policy and the associated aspects to it, the three communiqués and the Taiwan Relations Act, the U.S. law that guides the manner in which we do provide military support to Taiwan.
The Chinese government is constantly asking us about this and seeking reassurance, and we have made it clear to them that even though we may undertake arms sales to Taiwan from time to time, those arms sales are for the purpose of making sure that the Taiwanese are able to defend themselves and are in no way an attempt to move away from our One China policy. We're absolutely firm on this and there's no disagreement anywhere within the administration.
SOME WOULD ARGUE THAT THE DEFENCE DEPARTMENT HAS SENT A SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT MESSAGE. Not with respect to our One China policy. Now, you can have debates in any government about what you need--our arms-sale policy in particular. And we're forever reviewing what the nature of the threat is directed toward Taiwan that should be of concern to us. And one has to have a continuing discussion about where China is going as a nation. It's accumulating great wealth and we hope too they'll use that wealth in the right manner, which will help the local Chinese people enjoy a better life.
And we hope that China will, as it modernizes its military force, if it modernizes its military force, which we shouldn't be surprised if a nation should do that, in no way change the nature of that force in a way that suggests that it's undertaking offensive capability or developing offensive capabilities that will threaten Taiwan or would threaten the region. And so this is why it's important for us to have good relations with China, military-to-military exchanges with China so we can get into each other's thinking, and why we stay so engaged with China.
YOU MET WITH [CHINESE VICE-PRESIDENT] HU JINTAO ON HIS TRIP TO WASHINGTON. WHAT WAS YOUR ASSESSMENT OF HIM? I found him to be a very engaging interlocutor. We spent a little bit of our time together talking about New York City. He had just come from New York, where he had paid his respects down at the World Trade Centre. I told him the next time he comes to New York, I want to be there to take him to the shows, so he can have a hot dog on the corner, and so I can show him my town, my city, and he found that amusing and intriguing and said that his wife would have liked that a lot. So I found him pretty loose and a human chap in one-to-one discussions. But of course he was also making his first visit as vice-president to the United States, and he made clear that we understood what the Chinese positions were on a variety of issues, including Taiwan.
ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT IF THE JAPANESE DON'T MOVE MORE AGGRESSIVELY TOWARD ECONOMIC REFORM, IN THE COMING DECADES WE ARE GOING TO SEE CHINA ECLIPSE JAPAN AS AN ECONOMIC POWER IN THIS REGION AND THAT WOULD CHANGE THE GEOPOLITICAL BALANCE OR THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE U.S. AND JAPAN? Let me separate that into two pieces, the first one on Japan. We have supported Prime Minister Koizumi's efforts to deal with the structural problems that exist with the Japanese economy. On the issue of nonperforming loans and some of the other problems, they have need for more growth, Prime Minister Koizumi is moving in this direction. The rate at which he moves is a judgment he'll have to make, but we think he should move as aggressively as he can to do something about these issues of growth and elimination of nonperforming loans.
The question of China is there of course, and that would seem to be an impetus to Prime Minister Koizumi. It remains to be seen whether China will grow to the point where it eclipses the economies of Asia, especially Southeast Asia. It is going to be a fascinating development to watch.
ARE YOU GOING TO BE DISCUSSING WITH ANY OF THE LEADERS YOU'LL BE MEETING HERE AND THE REST OF YOUR TRIP, THE UNITED STATES DESIRE TO SEE SADDAM HUSSEIN TOPPLED, IF NECESSARY BY FORCE? WILL YOU BE SOLICITING THEIR VIEWS ON THAT ISSUE? I'm sure that in the course of my conversations during this week, the issue of Iraq will come up. I will point out that this is a dangerous regime that is developing weapons of mass destruction and which should be of concern to the entire international community.
The president does not have any war plans sitting on his desk, so it is not my intention to solicit support for a war plan that the president does not yet have on his desk.
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