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The Roaring Nineties
The Atlantic Monthly ^ | October 2002 | Joseph Stiglitz

Posted on 09/18/2002 2:09:03 PM PDT by liberallarry

As the chairman of Bill Clinton's Council of Economic Advisers, and subsequently as the chief economist of the World Bank during the East Asian financial crisis, Joseph Sitglitz was deeply involved in many of the economic-policy debates of the past ten years. What did this experience tell him? That much of what we think we know about the prosperity of the 1990s is wrong. Here is a revised history of the decade, by the winner of the 2001 Nobel Prize in Economics

Full Article


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: bullmarket; govtregulation; hypocrasy; prosperity
The article is very long, very interesting, and very disturbing. I can't say I understand it (I'll have to re-read it several times) but I pass it along because of the reputation and experience of both the author and the magazine.
1 posted on 09/18/2002 2:09:03 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
bump
2 posted on 09/18/2002 2:19:09 PM PDT by KC Burke
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To: liberallarry
I'll wait till the magazine arrives to chew through this article. I just cannot do 12 or 16 pages on my screen at a sitting.
3 posted on 09/18/2002 2:21:09 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Willie Green
You may want to chew through this. I've given it a quick read and have many things that came to mind, but I was totally blown away about the general honest appraisal by a Clinton appointee. That administration wasn't known for even attempting honest appraisals of its tenure.

This guy is still politically in line with his mainstream, but he doesn't try to paint it like Bill would.

4 posted on 09/18/2002 2:27:00 PM PDT by KC Burke
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To: liberallarry
Stiglitz: The answer comes in large part from the simple fact that globalization has left many of the poorest in the developing world even poorer.

BS, as already shown by Virginia Postrel in the NYT just a little while ago, and also at her website.

Stiglitz of course makes some valid observations in the article, but every kumbaya leftist bromide he lists, like the one above, is horse manure.

Since you mention you may not understand all of the article, allow me to suggest that you check for Mickey Kaus' reaction. He's a liberal himself (with serious reservations), but there is no better interpreter of liberal economic jibberish on the web. I don't know if he's written about this piece yet, but he probably will someday soon.

5 posted on 09/18/2002 2:27:43 PM PDT by beckett
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To: liberallarry
From a quick perusal, this article is a bunch of cr_p. Another Clintonite trying to blame Republcans for the current recession. He's clever, though, because he does this in what he claims is a mea culpa for the Clintonistas.

He repeats the tired old argument that higher taxes and lower interest rates spur economic growth by increasing bond yields. The fact is that there was a brief recession in 1991 due to the savings and loan mess, then soaking up huge tax dollars. Clinton took office with the recession over, the S&L mess cleaned up and low interest rates. The Reagan boom resumed, and not even the modest tax increase at the beginning of the Clinton administration could stop it. With a Republican Congress stopping new spending programs and Republican Greenspan keeping interest rates low, all Clinton had to do was take the credit.

Stiglitz makes the lame argument that Reagan's tax cuts created a "bubble" in real estate that burst in the S&L crisis and thus wasn't a real boom. First, the growth rates during the Reagan boom (1983-1990) were higher than the Clinton boom. Second, the real estate Investment Tax Credit was demanded by Congressional Democrats as a price for support of Reagan's rate cuts, which is all Reagan wanted. Moreover, the S&L problem at root was caused by the fedearl mandate that S&L's could pay more interest on savings than banks, which was a New Deal Democrat program that could not continue in any rational banking system. The confluence of bad tax and bad regulatory policy by Democrats attracted predatory speculators to the S&L's and led to their ruin. Bush 41 had to clean up the mess of paying off depositors and cleaning up bad loans. But the bottom line is that it is really sleazy economics to claim there was no Reagan boom because we had an S&L crisis or that the Reagan boom was a bubble - not much of a bubble to trigger a one quarter recession.

On the other hand, how are Mr. Stiglitz and his fellow Clintonistas going to explain the stock market bubble they caused and which was the subject of two Economist cover stories before they left office, the bursting of which has lost American stockholders billions in retirement savings? Can't blame Bush, the stock market bubble burst before Bush took office.

6 posted on 09/18/2002 2:30:15 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: liberallarry
An interesting article, alright...

Another clintoon apologist trying to rationalize and rewrite history. (Is this why he got a nobel award?) Examples include, but are not limited to, statements such as:

"Fortunately, owing in part to Clinton's success in cutting the deficit..."
For the record, clinton fought this tooth-and-nail.

"As a result of Reagan's tax cuts and the increases in expenditures that both his Administration and Congress had pushed for..."
Self-explanatory, for those who know the truth...

"we tried, as far as possible, to "back load" the deficit reduction—that is, to have greater deficit reduction in future years."
In other words, buy now, pay forever...

Buried deep in the article is:
"The Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, which separated investment banking from commercial banking, recognized the conflicts of interest that can arise when the two are conflated. But concerns about keeping them separate were put aside after the arrival at the Treasury Department of Robert Rubin, in 1995."

But then returns to his apologist mentality by saying:
Early in the Clinton Administration, Labor Secretary Robert Reich, along with the Council of Economic Advisers, pushed for reducing what is now commonly known as "corporate welfare"..."

And finally, the BIGGEST example of his distorted viewpoint:

Instead of curbing consumption to finance our boom, we borrowed—heavily, year after year—from abroad. We did this to fill the widening gap between what we were saving and what we were investing—a gap that opened in earnest under Ronald Reagan but grew under George H. W. Bush and Bill Clinton, and has reached new dimensions under the new President Bush. (At least during the Clinton years borrowing went to finance investment, rather than—as in the Reagan and first Bush Administrations—a national consumption binge.)

This guy's a hack. Obviously the standards for a Nobel prize have been lowered... Who'll win it next year, Whoopi Goldberg???

What rot.


7 posted on 09/18/2002 2:45:48 PM PDT by Capitalist Eric
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To: liberallarry
I was there in 1992 and saw what I think ACTUALLY happened. If you remember, there was an economic downturn near the end of the Bush presidency. Much of middle and lower upper management was let go. At the time 'entrepreneur' was the buzz word (remembering now?) Concurrently, interests rate were falling, before, I might add, Clinton was anywhere near the White House. Rates continued to fall as a result of the Fed defeating inflation. You then had a combination of things going on: 1. Skilled middle management, flushed out of the system, created many new small companies, creating new products and services, and jobs; 2. Falling rates made it easier to borrow to grow business, and therefore the economy to expand; 3. Lower rates made it possible for what seemed like everybody to refinance their homes, lowering their mortgage payments, and releasing more cash into the system, to buy more products. The economy took off. It had NOTHING to do with Clinton. NOTHING! As the internet became pervasive, the Web economy was sold to the market, which was all know meant they through out the normal ways of determining a company's value. All the extra cash this economy had was ripe for the taking. Once all the tech stocks became obviously overvalued, the market then focused on quarterly earnings reports, which were manipulated to keep the stock values up.
The long term ramifications of the tech bubble are just beginning to be known. As well, the possibility of a real estate valuations bubble can't be denied. The bottom line is, Clinton had nothing to do with the economy, other than staying out of its way. The economy was already on the way back up when Bush left office. Clinton got into office by way of a lie, and he didn't stop there.
8 posted on 09/18/2002 2:46:30 PM PDT by Hoosier-Daddy
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To: All
I'm going to re-read with your comments in mind.

On the strictly economic issues I don't expect any resolution and I do expect people to adopt positions along party/ideological lines. Good, strong arguments are the best that can be expected.

What disturbed me on first reading was something that Capitalist Eric also noticed; the author politely, but harshly, criticizes Robert Rubin for blatantly favoring friends on Wall Street and in the international banking community (on more than one occasion). Later he gives credit to Rubin for some policies he likes. And he leaves it at that! I don't think that's right.

9 posted on 09/18/2002 3:14:00 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
I re-read the piece. It is a craftily constructed, pro-regulation political piece, not a serious attempt at economic scholarship. Every item he explores is spun left. He admits some fault in the Clinton administration only to in the end hold up Sweden as the ideal state. Sweden! A recent in-depth study --- heavily covered in Sweden itself --- recently showed that Sweden has standard of living indices lower than those of Mississippi, the poorerst region in the United States.

Having re-read the article and thought about Stiglitz's numerous vanities of interpretation (he even manages to squeeze in a meniton of his Nobel win!), I now think Kaus may not even address this article. It is lightweight tendentious folderol dressed to impress.

10 posted on 09/18/2002 4:51:01 PM PDT by beckett
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To: beckett
I worked with some Swedes about 7 years ago. I was surprised at the amount of petty crime in that country. Now it turns out they have a low standard of living? I wonder if that's really true. In a sparsely populated and beautiful country you can have an awfully good time on very little money.
11 posted on 09/18/2002 5:32:31 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry; All
Intersting article and I am fascinated by the comments. I get the same read although I have some trouble accepting or denying some of the economic suppositions presented.

Bottom line, is the article a anti-Clinton or an anti-Bush speech? I'm leaning towards anti-Bush based on the bashing of the tax cuts. Certainlky it was very negative towards Reagan.

I did get out of it an admission that the 2000 decline had its roots in policies of the Clinton Administration however.
12 posted on 09/21/2002 9:17:37 AM PDT by finnman69
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To: finnman69
The way I read it he was less happy with Bush than with Clinton and less happy with Reagan than with Bush...and he wasn't happy with Clinton or economics. He feels we still don't know enough to manage properly.

As I said in subsequent posts I expected a certain partisan bias in the arguments with no possible definitive resolution. By the way there's an even more interesting article in the October issue of "The Atlantic" - "The New Christianity". I'm going to post it late today if I can get it free off their website.

13 posted on 09/21/2002 12:53:33 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: finnman69
It was his take on Rubin that shocked me. He accused the man of blatant favoritism in the LCTM case, in the repeal of Glass-Steagall, and in a couple of other instances. Is that the way you read it?
14 posted on 09/21/2002 1:18:58 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
He definitely gave it to Rubin. But he also kissed his ass in the end. Overall a fasinating and strangely subtle piece of writing, whether or not you agree with the conclusions.
15 posted on 09/21/2002 9:59:36 PM PDT by finnman69
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