Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

What is the LA Times up to with this?
1 posted on 12/13/2002 7:15:23 AM PST by The_Victor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021 next last
To: The_Victor
I think the LA Times is trying to make the case that the Marines shouldn't spend the money for the upcomming JSF STOVL variant, which will be a direct replacement for both the Marine and Royal Navy Harriers.
2 posted on 12/13/2002 7:26:20 AM PST by Yo-Yo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: The_Victor
the Harrier was originally produced by the British

With major funding from the United States.

The Harrier has failed to make a significant and distinctive contribution on the battlefield.

They might want to examine the records from Desert Storm and the Falklands.

including the V-22 Osprey troop transport whose revolutionary technology also has had deadly side effects.

The technology is sound. Mistakes commited by four Osprey pilots has been the major problem.

Photos of the Marine pilots killed in the Harrier

Wonder if they'll point out those who were responsible for their own deaths.

3 posted on 12/13/2002 7:28:52 AM PST by SMEDLEYBUTLER
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: The_Victor
It's another 'You're all gonna DIE!' story directed at our military. The leftist media loves this sort of story. The idea is that our men in uniform are wasting all of their committment and scarifice like the fools the left knows them to be.
4 posted on 12/13/2002 7:31:35 AM PST by x1stcav
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: The_Victor
They are "telling" us what to expect in Iraq --- great many American casualties.
5 posted on 12/13/2002 7:32:58 AM PST by TopQuark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: The_Victor
I don't think it's ever been any secret that the early years of the Harrier program were beset by fatal crashes. I also don't think anyone connected with the program truly expected otherwise, given that this was a radical new approach to flying an aircraft for most pilots, with new and challenging control systems.

Heck, there were a lot of crashes among the first fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft, too. I'm sure there were quite a few fatilities in the eary days of balloon flight. I guess fatalities are a surprise to bliss ninnies, but I doubt anyone who has ever been connected with aviation is surprised that occasionally people die while trying to work out revolutionary ways to put a human being into the air.

8 posted on 12/13/2002 7:41:36 AM PST by RogueIsland
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Poohbah
FYI.
12 posted on 12/13/2002 7:47:10 AM PST by hchutch
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: The_Victor; All
Not qualified to venture an opinion here: just posting FYI.
Navy’s best pilot killed in Harrier training crash

By Edmund Conway
Dec. 6, 2002

A pilot considered the most distinguished and experienced in the Royal Navy was killed yesterday when his Harrier crashed during a routine training mission.

Lt Cdr Martin London, who trained more than half the current Sea Harrier pilots, was instructing another Fleet Air Arm pilot when their two-seater T8 Sea Harrier went out of control shortly after take-off at RAF Wittering, in Cambridgeshire.

Both pilots ejected, but Lt Cdr London was fatally injured.

Known as Jack throughout the service, Lt Cdr London, 43, a father of one from Somerset, had flown more than 5,000 hours, and had seen operational service in Iraq, Sierra Leone and Yugoslavia.

In 1998 he was awarded the Queen’s Commendation for Bravery in the Air when he landed his Harrier on board the aircraft carrier Illustrious in the Gulf of Aden after the canopy had blown off at high altitude. “Rather than ejecting, which most would have done in that situation, he demonstrated remarkable bravery and control in landing the aircraft,” said a Navy spokesman.

Lt Cdr London likened the experience, recounted recently in the BBC television show 999, to “driving an open-top sports car at 300mph”.

Squadron Leader Tony Walsh, speaking from RAF Wittering yesterday, said an investigation would be launched into the crash on the short take-off and landing strip.

The other pilot had been taken to hospital in Nottingham, but was not seriously hurt. “He was being trained to use the T8 Sea Harrier and had already been trained on other aircraft.”

The pilots were on detachment from RNAS Yeovilton because of poor weather and a lack of available runways. Cdr Tim Eastaugh, one of Lt Cdr London’s commanding officers in Yeovilton, said he had received an MBE for his services to fixed-wing aviation in the Navy and was an inspiration to all those with whom he served. “He was a legend. He was a character, larger than life and extremely humorous, but totally unselfish. He was always last to leave and totally dependable.

“With Jack, aviation was a way of life. He wouldn’t have felt complete without it. His father Peter served in the Fleet Air Arm and it was what he always wanted to do.

“His feats were amazing - his flying, his dedication and his hard work.”

The accident is the second this year to befall a Harrier from RAF Wittering.

In August an RAF GR7 Harrier was lost in the sea during an air show. The pilot safely ejected from the plane, which suffered engine failure.

In December 1998 Gp Capt David Haward died when his GR7 Harrier crashed during a barrel roll days after he was named base commander.

© Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 2002.


14 posted on 12/13/2002 7:58:42 AM PST by dighton
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: The_Victor
This is such a bunch of bull sh!t. The British have used the thing as their premier fighting force. They kicked ass in the Faulklands and in kosovo. They have finicky behavior during transition because it takes touch to glue the laminar flow and unglue it smoothly over the wings, especialy when slipping.

that does not prevent the fact that aviators and armies have been happily flocking to that good bird.
19 posted on 12/13/2002 8:07:05 AM PST by lavaroise
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: The_Victor
Balloons on tethers should be the only way man should leap from this earth, and then not to high for there may be insufficient phlogisten to sustain their lives...
29 posted on 12/13/2002 8:25:26 AM PST by Axenolith
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: The_Victor
Lockheed tried unsucessfully to build a vertical take off fighter during the 60s. They lost some fine test pilots in the effort. The Brits managed to get the job done.
43 posted on 12/13/2002 8:46:40 AM PST by PAR35
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: The_Victor
The Harrier has failed to make a significant and distinctive contribution on the battlefield.

Try telling that to the British in the Falklands. The Harrier did it all and better that the Argentinians did.

Despite the Harrier's controversial history, the Marines are pushing ahead with a new generation of vertical-lift aircraft, including the V-22 Osprey troop transport whose revolutionary technology also has had deadly side effects.

Entirely different technology, Harrier-turbojet thrust vectoring vs MV-22 - rotor thrust vectoring

But, hey just a few insufficiencies in the facts. That usually doesn't bother the press.

56 posted on 12/13/2002 9:25:32 AM PST by pfflier
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: The_Victor
It's an impressive thing to see a Harrier hover in midair. Add the vertical take off and landing capabilities and anyone can see why this airplane is a must have for our military.

It would certainly be a new and revolutionary flying experience and by definition require skills in flying not previously required. Deaths, as unfortunate as they are, have always accompanied revolutionary advances in technology.

We should move forward with the program as fast as we can.

57 posted on 12/13/2002 9:25:43 AM PST by fightu4it
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: The_Victor
They're attacking the military. It's part of their stock in trade. For some perspective, US Army Lt. Thomas E. Selfridge has the dubious distintction of being the first man to die in an airplane crash. The date was September 17 1908, the aircraft was the Wright Flyer III. The pilot was none other than Orville Wright.
84 posted on 12/13/2002 10:22:48 AM PST by ArrogantBustard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: The_Victor
Other aircraft that don’t look safe…


98 posted on 12/13/2002 12:41:40 PM PST by My2Cents
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: The_Victor
the la times is still living in the 1970s, anti-vietnam war mode. witness a recent string of love-you articles on the symbionese liberation army nuts that were captured in minnesota and south africa.

the la times loves those people, left-wing domestic terrorists.

115 posted on 12/13/2002 7:53:00 PM PST by koax
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: The_Victor
disappointments in combat

Tell it to the Argentine pilots who engaged both Royal Navy and RAF Harriers around the Falklands.

133 posted on 12/15/2002 2:19:33 PM PST by El Gato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: The_Victor
The Harrier piece is designed to denigrate the armed forces, Bush, and the war on terrorism in that order.

The Harrier is a difficult aircraft to fly. However, who on the LA Times editorial staff has ever served in the U.S. armed forces, let alone developed any expertise in ground-attack warfare or the Harrier?
149 posted on 12/16/2002 7:06:23 AM PST by Man of the Right
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: The_Victor
Hey, I'll be in worse trouble than I'm already in if I tell Santa I don't want it now. Please kill this thread. I'd consider it a personal favor.
160 posted on 12/16/2002 3:55:12 PM PST by PoorMuttly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: The_Victor
Wow. I'm coming in late to this thread. My husband flew the Harrier through most of the 90s. Can't speak for it now, but then, it *was* a widowmaker. But in this wife's opinion...that had a lot to do with Clinton downsizing, cutting the maintenance budget, etc... We've lost a lot of dear friends, and some great pilots. When you attend more memorial services than weddings, something is really wrong. But I'll tell you, there is nothing better than watching your husband flying one of those suckers!!!
162 posted on 12/16/2002 5:13:57 PM PST by getmeouttaPalmBeachCounty_FL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: The_Victor
Well, I read a lot of the LA Times piece on the Harrier. Here's why a Harrier is not a good "escort" for a troop lift:

"Under the best circumstances, flying the Harrier is a formidable task. In an era of advanced avionics, with computers doing much of the flying, it still requires considerable manual dexterity (known among pilots as "monkey skills") and mental focus ("headwork").

Charles E. Myers Jr., a former director for air warfare in the Pentagon, likens the allure to riding "the nastiest horse in the rodeo."

While flying vertically, he must pay close attention to wind direction. Add the challenges of operating at night or from a moving ship and the task becomes daunting.

Retired pilot Brooks, whose plane was damaged in the pigeon hunt, compares it to "speeding your car 90 mph through a crowded shopping mall parking lot while playing the hardest X-Box video game imaginable and talking on your cell phone."

I find it really hard to believe that a Harrier can do the same job as a Cobra in looking over the LZ and providing suppression if needed, with all that busy work going on at the same time -- especially at low altitude.

Walt

185 posted on 12/19/2002 8:59:09 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021 next last

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson