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His goose is cooked!
The Indianapolis Star ^ | 04/30/2003 | Oldoverholt

Posted on 04/30/2003 8:58:37 AM PDT by oldoverholt

Cop kills goose that pecked his dog Officer faces possible 1-day suspension for killing aggressive bird trying to protect its nest. By Tom Spalding tom.spalding@indystar.com April 30, 2003

The seesawing Indianapolis feud between humans and Canada geese has escalated again, this time after an angry bird pecked a fight with the wrong man.

Indianapolis Police Officer Mitch Waters was letting his K-9 partner take care of business when a goose, trying to protect a nearby nest, swooped over a fence and nipped at the dog's nose.

Waters opened fire.

"He did what he thought he had to do to protect his dog," said spokesman Lt. Paul Ciesielski of the Indianapolis Police Department.

The goose did not survive.

Now Waters could be in trouble, too. His supervisor has recommended a one-day suspension for unnecessary use of a firearm in the April 13 shooting.

The recommendation will be considered by an IPD firearms review board and possibly by Chief Jerry Barker.

Waters couldn't be reached for comment Tuesday.

Canada geese, estimated at more than 100,000 in the state, have found Indiana a great place to settle down and raise families.

But they are messy and highly aggressive around their nests -- traits that sparked several run-ins this month.

Two condo owners were investigated after allegedly destroying nests, and a Plainfield man was treated at a hospital after being knocked to the ground and pecked bloody by two geese guarding their eggs.

The birds have become such a headache that state officials persuaded federal authorities to grant 1,800 permits to destroy goose nests this year.

The permits let eggs be destroyed but don't allow killing of adult birds.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Call Star reporter Tom Spalding at 1-317-327-7939


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: canadageese

1 posted on 04/30/2003 8:58:37 AM PDT by oldoverholt
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To: oldoverholt
Anybody know the cost of a fully trained police dog???

$20K, more?, less?

Imagine the trouble this officer would have been in if he had let the goose permanently injure the dog? Peck an eye out...etc. Making the dog useless for police duty.

2 posted on 04/30/2003 9:04:14 AM PDT by Onelifetogive
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To: Onelifetogive
Here in Minnesota we use dogs to keep the geese off our lawns.
3 posted on 04/30/2003 9:12:21 AM PDT by toast
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To: toast
Times sure have changed. The Romans used geese as watchdogs.
4 posted on 04/30/2003 9:14:04 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: Onelifetogive
>>Imagine the trouble this officer would have been in if he had let the goose permanently injure the dog?

Oh Please, a police dog injured by a goose? Give me a break. If I shot a goose I'd have my weapons confiscated...for a cop, its just target practice...he'll probably put in for some disability payments to for PTSD...another fine example of the brave men in blue...
5 posted on 04/30/2003 9:22:51 AM PDT by freeper12
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To: oldoverholt
I had a run-in with a goose at age two. Since then I've mostly been interested in how they taste.
6 posted on 04/30/2003 9:30:39 AM PDT by js1138
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To: oldoverholt
Hey, these birds are big and nasty, and sometimes when they make a run on you they aren't protecting anything but their own bad temper.

That said, the officer probably over-reacted a bit. He should have gone to non-violent intervention first - talk to the goose, get in touch with its feelings, bring in a negotiator. Or he should have let the dog rip its FReepin' head off. Either way.

7 posted on 04/30/2003 9:30:46 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: freeper12
Oh Please, a police dog injured by a goose? Give me a break

I agree. The dog should have been able to take of itself. Another thing. If "we" left their natural habitats alone, the geese would not be around people anyway.

8 posted on 04/30/2003 9:32:41 AM PDT by SCDogPapa (In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie)
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To: SCDogPapa
Another thing. If "we" left their natural habitats alone, the geese would not be around people anyway.

Yeah, we ought to put a stop to all that senseless farming and ranching that interferes with natural habitat. < /sarcasm >

So9

9 posted on 04/30/2003 9:38:58 AM PDT by Servant of the Nine (Real Texicans; we're grizzled, we're grumpy and we're armed)
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To: oldoverholt
Ah yes, another brave man walking that thin blue line that protects us all. Yet another instance of someone walking around with police powers who thinks it's his right to kill anything that so much as sneers at him.

I feel SO much safer knowing that he'll be free to excercise his (apparently bottomless) lack of judgement after his one-day paid vaction from 'duty'. Better lock up your cats if he's in the neighborhood, as he's likely to shoot them (and you for good measure) for hissing at his valuable canine partner.

10 posted on 04/30/2003 10:02:51 AM PDT by zeugma (Linux: the better, faster and cheaper alternative to windows.)
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To: eastsider
The Romans used geese as watchdogs.

To be more historically accurate, you mean: "We, now, use dogs for watchgeese."

11 posted on 04/30/2003 10:22:24 AM PDT by coloradan
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To: oldoverholt
He should have been suspended for longer than one day. He fired his weapon because a goose attacked his dog? How ridiculous. I have no doubt that the K9 could have dealt quite nicely with the goose on its own.

This officer used very poor judgment. There was no need for it. It is his judgment that I question, and believe that such poor judgment deserves a little punishment.

I'm sure I'll hear from the other side of this issue, but I'd ask: A dog is in danger because of a goose? That's just silly.
12 posted on 04/30/2003 10:28:19 AM PDT by MineralMan
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To: MineralMan
This officer used very poor judgment. There was no need for it. It is his judgment that I question, and believe that such poor judgment deserves a little punishment.

I think he should be re-evaluated for his fitness as a police officer. This indicates he is quick to go for the gun and pull the trigger. This time is was just a goose, but the next time it could be a person.

13 posted on 04/30/2003 10:31:16 AM PDT by dirtboy (PaleoNeoCon - a neocon who was neocon before neocon was cool...)
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To: dirtboy
"I think he should be re-evaluated for his fitness as a police officer. This indicates he is quick to go for the gun and pull the trigger. This time is was just a goose, but the next time it could be a person."

I'd have to agree with you. Sounds like a poor choice as a police officer. But...in many places, the folks who take those jobs don't seem to me like the best ones for the jobs. Lots of trigger-happy cops out there, I'm afraid.
14 posted on 04/30/2003 10:35:09 AM PDT by MineralMan
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To: coloradan
What you said : )

There was a scene in Gladiator of a sentor's villa with a large courtyard and resident gaggle. Historically accurate.

15 posted on 04/30/2003 10:35:45 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: oldoverholt
You think a suspension is bad?

Wait until PETA hears about this!

16 posted on 04/30/2003 10:45:45 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Californians are as dumm as a sack of rocks)
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To: SCDogPapa
"If "we" left their natural habitats alone, the geese would not be around people anyway."

You don't know much about Canadian geese.

17 posted on 04/30/2003 11:04:02 AM PDT by MEGoody
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To: MEGoody; Servant of the Nine; All
You don't know much about Canadian geese.

You are right. So I did a little looking.

Impact of Canada Geese in the U.S.
A. IDENTIFICATION
1. The Issue
Canada geese, once treated unequivocally as beautiful symbols of the majesty of nature, are now perceived by many East coast American suburbanites and business-people as just common pests, no different than rats. Lately, the geese have populated suburbs, golf courses, parks and recreational waters in ever-increasing numbers, and their droppings and penchant for short-cut grass have sparked several angry reactions. As a result of new behavioral patterns--namely the recent unwillingness to migrate to Canada, as their name would imply--reinforced by the spread of suburban developments and golf courses, laws protecting Canada geese have come under attack: the geese's protected status, many feel, no longer reflects their actual conditions in the wild. Both private and commercial concerns have pressured the federal and state governments to allow thinning of the geese's population that will benefit productivity across several economic sectors, namely the tourism service sector. The Canada geese case-study presents an interesting policy dilemma: how much should the environment be protected--is there such a thing as too much protection?

2. Description
Canada geese are protected by the United States Fish and Wildlife Service under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 and the Migratory Bird Conservation Act of 1929. The former, the implementation of a 1916 convention signed by the United States and Canada, prohibits the hunting, possessing, purchasing and exporting of migratory birds "or any part, or egg of any such bird." However, the Secretary of the Interior is also authorized to legalize temporary hunting of migratory birds "based on due regard to distribution, abundance, and breeding habits." States may implement additional laws that are tougher in enforcement. Violations of this act constitute federal felonies and are subject to fines and imprisonment. The Migratory Bird Conservation Act authorizes the funding and maintenance of wild migratory bird refuges. (see MIGRATE case)

The controversy over Canada geese concerns whether or not they are, in fact, migratory and hence privy to federal protection. Canada geese--as their name implies--until recent years regularly migrated to northern Canada for the summer. But over the last 20- 25 years, many geese have chosen to remain south of the border, and the populations of these non-migratory geese have grown into the millions, with geese situated in eastern states from Maine down to Virginia. Aerial observations of some flocks have led to the conclusion the number of geese has doubled since 1975 and will continue to grow if present trends continue.

Why have the geese lost their biological impulse to migrate? Besides protection from game-hunters, the geese have been encouraged by the spread of suburban developments, corporate parks and recreational areas. Canada geese prefer the short-cut, manicured grass found on golf courses and on the properties of suburban corporate headquarters over the wild tundra of Canada. The shorter grasses, besides providing a plentiful source of food, afford the geese security--they can better monitor predators with the clearer views. Furthermore, the pools and ponds that normally accompany these developments are perfect sources of still drinking water. In a short time, then, the geese have learned that the environment created by humans was much closer to goose paradise than they would experience in Canada, and chose to stay.

While the complacency of these beautiful birds may be a godsend to naturalists, they have been a nightmare for farmers, recreation service providers, and tourists. Geese often invade local farms to eat corn and other grain crops, leaving farmers with substantially less for harvest. The construction of dams in the 1950's and 1960's has created more area for standing water, and irrigation ditches lead the geese straight to the fields. The geese also compete with sheep and other livestock for grazing land. In the end, farmers have to spend considerably more on fertilizer, feedstuffs and geese prevention measures.

A sector of the economy that has been particularly effected by non-migratory Canada geese is golf. Golf courses are perfect habitats for Canada geese, with plenty of rich, short grass and ponds. Course managers have to spend thousands of dollars annually to repair greens and fairways and to clean up goose dropping for the convenience of their members. Parks and recreational lakes and ponds face similar damage costs, as did the Aqueduct Racetrack in New York state, where hundreds of geese had taken up residence on the infield, refusing to leave until they had substantially ravaged the turf.

A more serious threat posed by the thriving Canada goose population is interference with ground and air travel. Goose and gosling crossings on major roads can create back-ups and fender- benders, as many drivers swerve or stop suddenly to hitting them. Canada geese have been particularly problematic for airliners, because a goose sucked into an engine can cause considerable damage and put crew and passenger lives at risk. Finally, the Canada geese's droppings pose various health and physical hazards to humans. Goose manure is very slick and can contribute to broken ankles and other serious injuries if stepped on. But it also breeds the bacterium E. Coli, which promotes flulike symptoms in humans.

The Canada geese have so adapted to their new sedentary existences, they have learned to ignore the various means employed to shoo them away. Apparently, these geese will barely ruffle a feather when shots are fired or when scarecrows and flags are displayed in their view. The frustration of the several business interests noted above has gotten to the point where the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and its state counterparts have given in and sanctioned limited hunting seasons on Canada geese. These hunts are justified as population-thinning measures on a species that has temporarily transcended its "endangered" status. Thousands of geese have been killed in these hunts, with bag limits ranging from 3 to 5 geese per day per hunter over a 10-day season.

The Department of the Interior has also sanctioned the limited sterilization of Canada goose eggs (done by shaking or puncturing the eggshell). But appeals to remove the Canada goose from the list of protected species have been denied. Persons who kill Canada geese without permission are still charged as felons; such is what happened to employees of a Williamsburg, Virginia golf course, who killed 39 geese with poisoned birdseed and were fined several thousands of dollars.

The hunts have predictably drawn criticism from bird-lovers, who believe that the costs to agriculture, recreation and other trades do not warrant such extreme measures. Thus new methods have been experimented with to simply chase the geese away from private and commercial areas. For instance, some people have invested in grape Kool-Aid powder to sprinkle on lawns; the geese have a digestive aversion methyl anthranilate, a natural compound found in grapes that causing a burning sensation in their stomachs. Border collies have also been employed to shepherd Canada geese on public spaces onto trailers for transport to wildlife refuges.

3. Related Cases:
MIGRATE Case
BIRDS Case
CRANE Case
TIMOWL Case
JPGOLF Case
ASIAGOLF Case
SWIFT Case

Key words
1. USA
2. BIRD
3. Species Loss Air
4. Draft Author: Jason B. Silberberg (May, 1996)
B. LEGAL CLUSTER
5. Discourse and Status: AGRee and COMPlete
6. Forum and Scope: United States and BILAT
7. Decision Breadth: 2 (United States and Canada)
8. Legal Standing: TREATY (Migratory Bird Treaty of 1916) also LAW (U.S. Acts of 1918 and 1929)
C. GEOGRAPHIC CLUSTER

9. Geography
Continental Domain: North America (NAMER)
Geographic Site: Eastern North America (ENAMER)
Geographic Impact: United States
10. Sub-national Factors: YES
States are permitted to enact and enforce laws and sanctions that exceed federal protection minimums, and states may open limited hunting seasons on Canada geese and can sterilize goose eggs with federal permission.

11. Habitat: TEMPERATE
D. TRADE CLUSTER
12. Type of Measure: Regulatory Standard
13. Direct vs. Indirect Impacts: INDirect

Environmental laws affect the goose population directly by protecting the entire species. But protection of Canada geese as indirectly affected agriculture and recreational services by allowing the geese to multiply to the extent that various sectors of the eastern U.S. economy incur more damages and/or costs.

14. Relation of Measure to Impact
Directly Related to Product: NO
Indirectly Related to Product: YES Geese
Not Related to Product: NO
Related to Process: YES Species Loss Air
15. Trade Product Identification: GOLF
16. Economic Data
17. Degree of Competitive Impact: LOW
The quantity of geese does pose a serious threat to air travel, but the actual probability of a Canada goose damaging a plane engine is very low. In most other cases, businesses are inconvenienced by the amount of goose droppings on their properties, but the geese themselves do not seriously impact their economic performance.

18. Industry Sector: Services
19. Exporter and Importer: Many and USA
E. ENVIRONMENTAL CLUSTER
20. Environmental Problem Type: POLL
The geese dump considerable quantities of their waste on suburban landscapes. The waste is a health risk because it promotes bone injuries through slipping, and it can be a breeding ground for E. Coli. There are possibilities for noise pollution; when a lot of geese congregate in an area, the honking can be considerable.

21. Species Information
Name: Canada Goose
Type: Animal/ Chordate/ Bird
Diversity: about 2 million in the United States
ICUN Status: Rare (debateable; populations have rebounded tremendously under strict environmental protection laws.

22. Impact and Effect: LOW and SCALE
23. Urgency and Lifetime: LOW and 10-14 years
Non-migratory Canada geese generally live longer than do their migratory counterparts, namely because they live out of range from natural predators and because they have stable sources of food and water.
24. Substitutes: CONSERVATION
F. OTHER FACTORS
25. Culture: NO

Insofar as a suburban lifestyle can be called a distinct culture, the presence of Canada geese has certainly altered that lifestyle. Also, the explosion of the geese's population has favorably affected the "culture" of naturalists who are inspired by watching the geese fly in their V formation across the sky. But beyond these very loose stretches of the term "culture," culture is not at risk.
26. Trans-boundary: YES
Fewer Canada geese are migrating to Canada because they are so pampered in the warmer United States.
27. Human Rights: NO
28. Relevant Literature


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May 10, 1996
18 posted on 05/01/2003 7:19:17 AM PDT by SCDogPapa (In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie)
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To: oldoverholt
Your entry brings back bad memories.

While I was assigned to McChord AFB in Washington state, I was running a gymnasium complex that included football and softball fields. The Canadian geese in our area were not naturally there, they were trucked in and released by people from another area because they were being over run with them. They released a few hundred from trucks at a local lake, and the animals breeded for years while they slowly took control of the area. They started getting into the air intakes of the jets on base, and a few thousand were caught and released in eastern Washington. No amount of sound or chasing by trained dogs could discourage them from going where they were, and they continued to breed by the thousands.

These birds do not migrate, so they live year round here and do nothing but poop all over everything (and they do that even better than they breed). Their waste carries a number of illnesses and if eaten, is poisonous and can make most animals extremely sick to inculde humans.

Because of the amount of birds at the army post hospital next door, and the amount of waste on the ground, the army purchased two swans to put in a lake at the hospital to chase away the geese as swans are a natural enemy. There were so many geese that it didn't work, the swans stayed in the water from fear. The geese succeeded in, literally, getting waste over every foot of land around the hospital and in the parking lots. It was being tracked into the buildings, food facilities, and child care areas. This happens everywhere in the area.

Are they a regal bird with great beauty? Absolutely! Are they a desease carrying pain in the keyster that do nothing for the surrounding area but leave waste and attack anything that bothers them? You bet!

Here's another thought: how many soup kitchen pots would be filled if people got past their cooing of these filthy animals? A hundred years ago they were considered a delicacy. Now they are considered nothing more than calendar picture filler for autumn months as they poison the area they consume. Let's be reasonable.
19 posted on 05/01/2003 7:52:08 AM PDT by Redwood71
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