Mr. Cohn. Mr. Gragis, were you ever employed at the Federal Telecommunications Laboratory?
Mr. Gragis. Yes, sir.
Mr. Cohn. And did you work there from 1945 to 1950?
Mr. Gragis. Yes, roughly that.
Mr. Cohn. Did you work on any government work while you were there?
Mr. Gragis. Yes.
Mr. Cohn. Mr. Gragis, were you at that time a member of the Communist party?
Mr. Gragis. Not for the full length of that time, but for a good period of the time.
Mr. Cohn. You were a member of the Communist party?
Mr. Gragis. Yes.
Mr. Cohn. During what years were you a member of the Communist party?
Mr. Gragis. Say from about 1946 to very early in 1950.
Mr. Cohn. You were a member of the party from 1946----
Mr. Gragis. To rather early in 1950.
Mr. Cohn. I see. Were any of the other people working at the Federal Telecommunications Laboratory members of the Communist party?
Mr. Gragis. Some.
Mr. Cohn. Can you furnish us with their names? Mr. Gragis. Yes, I can. Harry Hyman, Al Shadowitz, Ruth Levine, Jack Saunders . . .
Mr. Cohn. Did you know Ernest Pataki?
Mr. Gragis. Yes.
Mr. Cohn. Was he a party member?
Mr. Gragis. Yes.
Mr. Cohn. How about Frank McGee?
Mr. Gragis. Yes.
Mr. Cohn. Leo Kantrowitz?
Mr. Gragis. Yes.
Mr. Cohn. Andy Castros?
Mr. Gragis. Yes.
Mr. Cohn. Did you ever attend any Communist meetings at Harry Hyman's home?
Mr. Gragis. Quite a number of times.
Mr. Cohn. At Hyman's home?
Mr. Gragis. Yes.
Mr. Cohn. How about at Pataki's home?
Mr. Gragis. Quite a few times.
Mr. Cohn. And while attending these cell meetings with people from the Federal Telecommunications Laboratory, were there ever any discussions of revolution and specifically of ``State and Revolution'' by Lenin?
Mr. Gragis. Yes. Frank McGee was the leader of the educational discussion.
Mr. Cohn. He was the leader?
Mr. Gragis. Yes.
Mr. Cohn. And had he been employed at the Federal Telecommunications Laboratory?
Mr. Gragis. Yes.
Mr. Cohn. Mr. Chairman, this Mr. Gragis obviously is a most cooperative witness, and he is taking a very honorable approach to this. I was wondering, rather than asking him anything more, if Mr. Buckley could talk to him later in the afternoon or tomorrow, and then possibly we would have Mr. Gragis later. I think that is it. Mr. Buckley will work along with you, Mr. Gragis, and we will keep in touch with you that way. We certainly want to thank you for taking this attitude.
Mr. Gragis. If I might just say one word----
Mr. Cohn. Surely.
Mr. Gragis [continuing]. I wish to say this, that when I was separated from the company, FTL, I spent a good number of years thinking on just what I should do and before I read in the papers about Fort Monmouth or anything about FTL, I had come to the conclusion that I should voluntarily go to the FBI and I did. I gave them a complete history of myself for about twenty years back.
The Chairman. How long ago did you do that?
Mr. Gragis. That was around June of last year, I believe. Now, I might be wrong, but I think it is around then, June or maybe July.
The Chairman. I think the country owes a rather deep debt to people who have made a mistake and who are willing to rectify it as well as they can by going to the FBI or to the committee and give then that information. I know your job is an unpleasant one. It would be much easier for you to come in and refuse to testify and that sort of thing. I would like to thank you very, very much for the help not only that you have given to the committee but for the help that we understand you have also given to the FBI.
Mr. Gragis. May I say another thing?
The Chairman. Certainly.
Mr. Gragis. I have another fear now, too, and that is this: Although I went to the FBI, I knew that my appearance before them would be kept in the strictest confidence. Because I have appeared here now I have a fear that should I be publicized or anything, that some of these subversives might make my life miserable at home with my wife or daughter. Mr. Cohn. We will have Mr. Buckley work with you on that angle, and we will do everything within our power to prevent that. We will be mindful of the fact that that is a problem.
(break)
Mr. Cohn. We just had a witness in here who said that while you were working at the Federal Telecommunications Laboratory, you were a member of the Communist party. Were you?
Mr. Kantrowitz. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that under the Fifth Amendment a person may not be compelled to bear witness against himself.
Mr. Cohn. Are you a member of the party today?
Mr. Kantrowitz. I refuse to answer that question on the same ground.
Mr. Cohn. Were you a member of the party while working at Zenith on Monday?
Mr. Kantrowitz. I refuse to answer that question on the same grounds.
(break)
Mr. Cohn. While you were attending Cornell, did you know a man named Alfred Sarant?
Mr. Finestone. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds of the Fifth Amendment.
Mr. Cohn. Did Sarant recruit you into the Rosenberg spy ring?
Mr. Finestone. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds of the Fifth Amendment.
Mr. Cohn. Did you engage in a conspiracy to commit espionage with certain persons working for the Army Signal Corps? (snip)
Mr. Finestone. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds of the Fifth Amendment.
Mr. Cohn. In the year 1952, were you asked by William Perl to place a person working in the Army Signal Corps in contact with the Soviet underground in this country?
Mr. Finestone. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds of the Fifth Amendment.
Mr. Cohn. Did you transmit instructions to various members of the Rosenberg spy ring within the last eighteen months?
Mr. Finestone. I refuse to answer that question on the grounds of the Fifth Amendment. (snip)
The Chairman. Mr. Finestone, you have been accused, and obviously have been guilty of, espionage, which is treason against your country, or otherwise you would answer these questions. You have had an accusation against you of being a part of the Rosenberg spy ring. How many deaths that spy ring, including you, have caused, no one will ever know, of course.
How many more people have died because of your activities as a traitor, no one will know. Let me ask you this question: In view of the fact that the Rosenbergs were executed for the same crime of which you are obviously guilty, can you see any reason why you should not meet the same fate that they did?
[The witness conferred with his counsel.]
Mr. Finestone. I don't believe I can answer that question. I don't see the relevance or the assumptions that it is based on.