Security law hits rocketry hobbyists

The Washington Times ^ | 29 May, 2003 | Audrey Hudson

[Ten Megaton Solution]

Model-rocket hobbyists must be licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives before buying motors that are now considered explosives under a homeland security law.

The regulation was proposed in March and went into effect this week over the objection of some Capitol Hill lawmakers.

[Ten Megaton Solution]

Anyone with cash in Los Angeles county can drive to fifty different Home Depots, Targets, Wal-Marts, and K-Marts and pay cash for ammonium nitrate fertilizer and amass a ton of the stuff with no record of it anywhere.

Kid's have to register to buy toy rocket motors? My tax dollars inaction.

[agitator]

This was Congress' way of throwing money at ATF without having to call it a funding increase.

[ETERNAL WARMING]

If we'd had actual adult Patriots in charge, none of this would have happened. We have excellent immigration laws on the books that have been routinely ignored for decades. If they'd been adhered to none of us would have had to loose any of our freedoms. None of us.

[templar]

If they'd been adhered to none of us would have had to loose any of our freedoms. None of us.

Oh, we'd still lose our freedoms. There would just be a different, but just as urgent, reason for it. Brilliant stategy and all of that sort of stuff, you know.

[elbucko]

If we'd had actual adult Patriots in charge, none of this would have happened.

Exactly to the point.

[Ten Megaton Solution]

I don't know. I'm not a rocketry hobbyist. I object to the government registering children and adults for no good reason.

For all we know, the next terror attack will stuff his bombs with fishing hooks and the government will be making all purchasers of hooks subject to secret searches and the rest. The time to protest is now.

[JeepInMazar]

More silly stuff from government idiots.

[cavtrooper21]

Its getting worse, next will be bulk powder for reloading, then ammo...
Even under Bush and Ashcroft the JBTs are working on a police state.

[SENTINEL]

"can take 90 days to process"

BS. They say it only takes six weeks to get a firearms manufacturers' license, and I almost went bankrupt waiting for 18 months for mine. Lying @#$%^&s !

[JackelopeBreeder]

Proof positive that politicians are not rocket scientists.

[jscd3]

As a guy who used to shoot off model rockets as a kid (Vernon Estes got all of my money when I was in the 9th grade), I would say that this is probably the stupidest government ruling that I have ever heard of. I just hope to Hell that nobody tells these Bozos that you can buy dangerous stuff like gasoline at a service station, or we're going to have to get a G..D... federal lisense to tank up our cars.

[Noumenon]

My romance with Estes products began when I was 10 years old. I can only wax nostalgic for those heady days of my Frogs In Space program.

[spunkets]

"Can you still buy the stuff over the Internet without intervention from the jack-booted thugs?"

No.

[spunkets]

"Anyone with cash in Los Angeles county can drive to fifty different Home Depots, Targets, Wal-Marts, and K-Marts and pay cash for ammonium nitrate fertilizer and amass a ton of the stuff with no record of it anywhere."

They don't sell AN in any of those places. All they do sell is mixed fertilizer and none of it contains any significant AN.

[Grig]

Ease up guys. This will do NOTHING to kids lauching their Estes Rockets.

The article clearly states that only engines with more than 62.5 grams of explosive propellant are covered. Those would be F class motors that can launch a 20oz rocket and has the power to pull of some minor forms of terrorist attack (rocket propelled explosives, spread a small amount of bio/chem weapon etc.) It is wise to have some kind of control on their use.

Also, F class engines usually have to have the propelant powder manually loaded into an engine case. As such they are totaly inappropriate for use by children. They are only used by adults involved in the hobby of HIGH POWERED ROCKETRY. If I recall correctly, you used to need some kind of BATF thingy to use a G engine, so all they've done is lowered it to F motors and make it more of a pain in the neck.

The largest moter Estes makes are E class motors that have half that amount of propellant. You can check their engine chart at http://www.estesrockets.com/images/page%2034.pdf. Most Estes rockes use C and lower engines, it's harder to find a place large enough to safely launch a D rocket.

Of course, you can get around it easy enough by just making your rocket use clusters of smaller engines, like having twin E engines to get the same power as an F, 4 E's instead of a G etc.

[StriperSniper]

the government will be making all purchasers of hooks subject to secret searches and the rest.

I'm in big trouble.

;-)

[StriperSniper]

Also, F class engines usually have to have the propelant powder manually loaded into an engine case.

The most common F class engines are made just like the smaller ones. It is at G when the loading really starts, and that has needed some paperwork for a while.

I haven't launched in many years, but found out that a guy in my company does the high power thing. I'm going to have to tag along one day. ;-)

you can get around it easy enough by just making your rocket use clusters of smaller engines,

Not too hard, but I would be awful nervous with any kind of warhead on it. Now staged clusters, that is where it really gets hairy.

[spunkets]

AP is a propellant, not an explosive. The BATF only recently came up with that lie, that it's an explosive. If Congress didn't specifically forbid them from screwing with firearm related powders, they would have screwed the shooters too.

I used to use E motors when I was a kid and they sold all sizes in the dime stores around me before the BATF came up with this crap. They're still looking for comments on their site and it's as clear as day to me that they would like to license and hold unannounced inspections on every hobbyist out there. Homeland security my butt, it's a jobs program for authoritarian thugs.

[Dr.Zoidberg]

http://mikes-rocketry.8m.com/eng.htm