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When people complain of how McCarthy was persecuting people for being communists, the implication is that they were targeted for their idealistic convictions.

The fact is they were living in this country enjoying the prosperity that freedom brings while at the same time passing information that would better enhance our enemies' ability to threaten the lives of each and every American living at the time.

That in turn gave the USSR considerable influence on our foreign policy. If it were not for its nuclear arsenal Soviet Russia would have been just another pathetic Third World dictatorship.

The idea that people would be sympathetic to the likes of Oppenheimer is beyond repulsive.

1 posted on 06/27/2003 9:05:39 AM PDT by walford
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To: walford
Was McCarthyism good for the United States?
2 posted on 06/27/2003 9:14:58 AM PDT by Tai_Chung
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To: walford
...it wasn't until I read the first few lines of this article that I realized that it was Oppie - not OPIE.
Whew, I'm glad my memories of little Opie Taylor from The Andy Griffith Show can remain unblemished!!
I'll leave quietly now - sorry for the intrusion!
5 posted on 06/27/2003 9:36:35 AM PDT by HanneyBean
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To: walford
BINGO:

The fact is they were living in this country enjoying the prosperity that freedom brings while at the same time passing information that would better enhance our enemies' ability to threaten the lives of each and every American living at the time.

8 posted on 06/27/2003 9:39:48 AM PDT by GOPJ
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To: walford
BINGO:

The fact is they were living in this country enjoying the prosperity that freedom brings while at the same time passing information that would better enhance our enemies' ability to threaten the lives of each and every American living at the time.

9 posted on 06/27/2003 9:39:54 AM PDT by GOPJ
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To: walford
One of the reasons people are "sympathetic" to Oppenheimer is because his scientific prestige was critical to ensuring the cohesion of the bunch of whiny, tempermental scientists at Los Alamos that was vital for the success of the Manhattan Project.

The FBI knew all about Oppie's pre-war leftist sympathies and communist flirtations and they briefed Gen. Groves on it. But Groves knew that he needed Oppie to get the vital questions answered. Groves did not hesitate to come down hard on Oppie if he needed to yank some chains of some of the more "questionable" scientists.

The other thing to remember is that during the duration of WW II, we were the ostensible allies of the USSR. Thus, commie spying was viewed with less alarm than Nazi spying would have been (at least by the New Dealers who were running the war effort). The real reason Oppie's security clearance was revoked was because he didn't want to work on Teller's "Super", i.e., the H-bomb. He had outlived his usefullness.

I don't know how much of the communist infiltration of the Manhattan Project can be laid at Oppie's door. Anytime you get a lot of pampered, entitled academics together, you'll find a lot of leftist sympathies. The thought at the time was that we needed the bomb -- an we needed it yesterday. Other considerations were given less weight. Perhaps that was a mistake, but I relegate it to the "fog of war" symdrome, not conspiracy.

15 posted on 06/27/2003 9:48:02 AM PDT by Cincinatus (Omnia relinquit servare Republicam)
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To: walford
The idea that people would be sympathetic to the likes of Oppenheimer is beyond repulsive.

Maybe they will finally lay off poor old Dr. Teller for a change, too. Once again, he was right.

16 posted on 06/27/2003 9:48:25 AM PDT by Gorzaloon (Contents may have settled during shipping, but this tagline contains the stated product weight.)
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To: walford
Not our little Opie. No way is he a commie.
He was brought up right. Not like some
All in the Family loser.
18 posted on 06/27/2003 10:00:39 AM PDT by jmq
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To: walford
bump
20 posted on 06/27/2003 10:09:11 AM PDT by RippleFire
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To: walford
Grand Ole Oppy
33 posted on 06/27/2003 11:43:25 AM PDT by Salman
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To: walford
Secrets, Lies, and Atomic Spies,.....Or... Joe McCarthy was more right than he ever knew

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/622675/posts
34 posted on 06/27/2003 11:45:36 AM PDT by quietolong
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To: walford
"they were living in this country enjoying the prosperity that freedom brings"

Powerfull statement!!
37 posted on 06/27/2003 12:47:29 PM PDT by CyberAnt ( America - You Are The Greatest!!)
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To: walford
Ann Coulter, in her most recent book "Treason", makes the point that the vast majority of citations in books and studies on McCarthy are from secondary sources. Yes, academics quoting each other. Most quoted sources are from liberal media reports and statements made by people who actually were Communists and Soviet agents and their pals. And yes there was an orchestrated smear campaign against McCarthy. Two examples she cites are:

1st, McCarthy was a Senator. The investigations of the House UnAmerican Committee (HUAC) are lumped in with "McCarthyism" -- yet the House is of course not the Senate.

2ndly, the "Hollywood Blacklisting" had nothing to do with McCarthy. He focused only on Soviet and Communist infiltration into the US Government. Period.

Yet the media smears McCarthy with somehow being responsible for all this "bad stuff" (which in fact was not bad, since there really were hundreds of Soviet agents infiltrating government.) IMO, the KBG funded thousands of people to infiltrate academia, legal foundations, nonprofits, and the media. Legally, too. Someone goes and makes a speech for some "foundation" and gets a nice $5K or $10K fee for the speech. Absolutely legal. But this kind of thing permitted people to become "agents of influence" when they weren't actually spies. They didn't have to give up a livelyhood to become subversives. They were paid.

I had hoped that after the demise of the USSR and the decline of the KGB funding this would die out, but I think these people are too infiltrated into the NGO's (UN), government agencies (civil servant salaries), and foundations (which tap into government grants).

39 posted on 06/27/2003 1:15:26 PM PDT by dark_lord (The Statue of Liberty now holds a baseball bat and she's yelling 'You want a piece of me?')
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To: walford
Einstein was a admirer of the gulag system of government too. Which is why the Army kept him at arm's lenght.
45 posted on 06/27/2003 1:51:54 PM PDT by DPB101
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To: walford
Ron Howard is a commie too I think. :)
51 posted on 06/27/2003 2:09:19 PM PDT by Impy (Sharpton/Byrd 2004!! The Slave/Massa Ticket!!)
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To: walford
My Dad wrote an article about Oppenheimer for LIFE Magazine. If there's enough people who want, I'll key it in. It's a long article. They became friendly and I have some correspondence from him that my Dad had in his belongings. Anyone interested?
73 posted on 06/27/2003 8:57:45 PM PDT by Hildy
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To: walford; doug from upland; jamaksin; Shermy; swarthyguy; Common Tator
The Soviets seem to have had a highly placed agent in American governing circles much more recently than McCarthy's time. According to the current book, Reagan's War, by Peter Schweizer (pp. 94-95):

At KGB headquarters, Yuri Andropov watched the election results with particular interest. As the [1976] election campagin had heated up, the KGB had managed to recruit a Democratic Party activist with direct access to senior levels of the Carter camp. The new agent, who passed political intelligence along to the Second Chief Directorate of the KGB, had a wide circle of influential contacts, including Senators Alan Cranston, Eugene McCarthy, Edward Kennedy, Abraham Ribicoff, and J. William Fulbright.

It was the best source the KGB has ever been known to tape inside a presidential campaign. The agent provided valuable inside information on the campaign strategy and offered a detailed profile of Carter himself. On one occasion the agent apparently spent three hours with Carter, Governor Brown of California, and Senator Cranston discussing the election in the candidate's room at the Pacific Hotel in California. According to the KGN report sent to the Politburo, the agent had "direct and prolonged conversations" with Carter. After Carter won in November, KGB chief Andropov forwarded his reports to all the members of the Politburo.

Any guesses on who that highly-placed Democratic Party activist may have been? Robert Strauss? Gray Davis?

102 posted on 06/28/2003 7:13:35 AM PDT by aristeides
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To: walford
Oppenheimer gives nuclear secrets to the Russians.

Clinton sells missle guidence technology to the Chinese.

One may have been an idealist but it is clear the other was in it for the cash.

108 posted on 06/28/2003 7:38:43 AM PDT by fightu4it (Hillary Clinton -- Commander-In-Chief of US Armed Forces? Never.....Never....Never!)
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To: walford
You may be interested in the book "Brotherhood of the Bomb" which deals with this subject. Here is a description of the book:
J. Robert Oppenheimer was once much closer to the Communist Party than he ever admitted. Yet as director of the laboratory that built the atomic bomb and as a weapons adviser to the government after World War II, he served his country more scrupulously than did many of those who made an issue of his loyalty. This arresting paradox is at the heart of the most commanding history yet written of the internal politics of the United States during the early years of the nuclear age, ''Brotherhood of the Bomb,'' by Gregg Herken, a historian at the Smithsonian Institution.

Herken shows how high-ranking officials conspired, sometimes with illegal wiretaps, to push Oppenheimer out of government service in 1954, and forced an Army general to testify falsely that Oppenheimer was a security risk. He also shows that Oppenheimer's petty deceits about who told him what concerning potential Soviet espionage were motivated more by personal than political loyalties and damaged himself more than anyone else. Herken's new material includes recently opened F.B.I. files, more than 80 interviews, and previously closed papers of several key actors in the drama.

The ''brotherhood'' of his title has a double meaning. It refers to the men in the subtitle, ''The Tangled Lives and Loyalties of Robert Oppenheimer, Ernest Lawrence and Edward Teller.'' These giants of atomic physics were bound together for decades in complex, tension-ridden alliances partly of their own making, but often created by military and political institutions that used them. Their ventures were driven by vanity, political dogma, vested interests, lust for power and, most shocking, perhaps, honest assessments of the welfare of the nation and the world.

But Herken's title also invokes the relationship between Robert Oppenheimer and his brother, Frank, also a physicist, whom Robert brought into the Manhattan Project despite Frank's having been a member of the Communist Party from 1937 to 1941. Later, Robert Oppenheimer's contradictory stories about spies appear to have been designed to protect his brother. These lies made him vulnerable to attack by those who wanted to destroy him for other reasons, especially for opposition to specific weapons initiatives supported in the early 50's by Teller and the Air Force. Teller, who eventually replaced Oppenheimer as the nation's most influential adviser on nuclear weapons, testified in 1954 that Oppenheimer should be denied a security clearance.

Herken tells the stories of both brotherhoods simultaneously in an enthralling narrative that moves from Berkeley to Los Alamos to Washington and several other places where bombs were designed, tested and debated. The University of California, Berkeley, was the academic home of both Oppenheimer and Ernest Orlando Lawrence, a machine-designing experimentalist of enormous creativity who had won a Nobel Prize in 1939 for designing the cyclotron. Lawrence was the government's initial choice to direct the Los Alamos laboratory. But his casual attitude toward security gave pause to James B. Conant and Vannevar Bush, the top science advisers to the White House.

Lawrence had brought Oppenheimer into a committee of scientists advising the government about building the bomb, and he offered such shrewd advice on one technical question after another that he became indispensable to the project. Gen. Leslie Groves, the military officer in charge of the Manhattan Project, ultimately chose Oppenheimer, even though he was a theorist with no administrative experience, as director at Los Alamos. Groves was aware that Oppenheimer's family, friends and students included many former members of the Communist Party, but his own contact with Oppenheimer in 1942 convinced him of his integrity and loyalty.

Yet Herken's research places Oppenheimer closer to the Communist Party in 1940 and 1941 than even the F.B.I. was able to do during its intensive investigations in the 40's and 50's. Herken leaves open the possibility that Oppenheimer was a member of the party's secret ''professional section'' in Berkeley. He is more decisive on a much more important issue: he finds no evidence that Oppenheimer ever passed secret information to Soviet intelligence, or that any sympathy with Soviet political aims distorted the advice he gave the American government.

There certainly were spies at Los Alamos. Klaus Fuchs and Ted Hall have long since been identified, and there was at least one other whose identity remains undisclosed. But F.B.I. wiretaps quoted by Herken reveal Robert Oppenheimer's Communist friends in Berkeley plotting espionage while complaining ruefully about his refusal to talk to them about his secret work. Soviet documents available since the end of the cold war record frustration that agents had not been able to recruit Oppenheimer. Herken shows that Oppenheimer, once he entered government service, vindicated Groves's faith in him.

Groves was coerced into testifying against Oppenheimer in 1954. The episode is one of many recounted here that reveal the paradox of Oppenheimer's loyalty being made an issue by people less scrupulous than he was in the exercise of their duties. The basis for what amounted to a kind of blackmail was a conversation between Groves and Oppenheimer late in 1943, which made Groves vulnerable to prosecution for felony violation of a statute prohibiting withholding of material information about espionage in wartime.

The general ordered Oppenheimer to name physicists who had been approached by Soviet agents. Oppenheimer himself had alerted junior security officers that overtures had been made, but declined to identify the physicists who had been targeted as potential spies. Now he told Groves that there was only one -- his brother, Frank. But he extracted a promise that Groves was never to disclose this to the F.B.I. To the F.B.I. Oppenheimer gave yet another account of the espionage effort, making no mention of his brother, but implicating others, including Haakon Chevalier, a Berkeley professor of French who, Oppenheimer said, served as an intermediary in the Soviet initiative.

Groves not only kept his promise, but was a steadfast defender of Oppenheimer for the next decade, voluntarily giving Oppenheimer in 1950 a resounding written testimonial he could show to any authorities that questioned his loyalty. But back in 1943 an aide in whom Groves confided had leaked the Groves-Oppenheimer secret to the F.B.I. During the intervening years J. Edgar Hoover was furious at Groves for keeping from him what he already knew privately. So when Lewis Strauss, chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission, prepared A.E.C. hearings on Oppenheimer in 1954, Hoover was ready to help. Most of the evidence against Oppenheimer was information long on record about his associations with Communists, and his conflicting stories about the role of his friend Chevalier. But Strauss and Hoover knew that this old information might play differently if Groves could be induced to put a different construction on it.

Hoover worked closely with Strauss to orchestrate Groves's testimony in the context of Groves's vulnerability to prosecution. He was allowed to avoid mentioning his private conversation with Oppenheimer. Thus he was not obliged to contradict testimony Oppenheimer gave at the same hearing to the effect that his brother Frank had ''nothing whatever to do'' with the approach made by Soviet agents. All Strauss needed on the record from Groves was a clear statement that he now regarded his protege as a ''security risk.'' Groves delivered on cue.

Did Oppenheimer tell Groves the truth? And if so, might Oppenheimer's reluctance to see his brother branded as someone whom his Communist friends found to be good spy material have been based on awareness that his brother was, indeed, tempted? Herken did not find evidence to support an answer to these questions.

But ''Brotherhood of the Bomb'' enables us to put what we do not know in the perspective of what we do know: 35 years after his death, J. Robert Oppenheimer remains, more than ever, one of those people who, in Stephen Spender's phrase, ''leave the vivid air singed with their honor.''


141 posted on 06/28/2003 2:46:34 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Hey grandma, buy your own drugs!)
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