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To: chance33_98
Just because I am in one of those moods...

Could some vocal zealot of the Libertine/Libertarian Party tell the rest of us if he/she is for this policy of "Prior Restraint" regarding drunk driving. For isn't the driver tooling around town drunk doing so in the privacy of his own automobile? Also, coining a pet phrase of the Libertine/Libertarian Party, (original: "I can swing my fists as much as I like, but my rights to do so ends at your nose.") "I can drive around drunk as much as I like, but my rights to do so ends at your car's bumper."

5 posted on 07/09/2003 2:41:56 PM PDT by Dr Warmoose (I just LOVE to rant.)
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To: Dr Warmoose
If somebody is exhibiting the behaviors associated with drunken driving, I personally have no problem with an officer pulling him over and finding out why.

I do have a problem with perfectly well functioning drivers being pulled over, searched (in violation of their constitutional rights), and ticket for nanny-state seatbelt violations.

Kiss a jackboot today.

11 posted on 07/09/2003 2:51:44 PM PDT by dead
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To: Dr Warmoose
Could some vocal zealot of the Libertine/Libertarian Party tell the rest of us if he/she is for this policy of "Prior Restraint" regarding drunk driving.

They want to remove the rights of others over their own business and property, if we want to do the same to them they get bent out of shape. They want to set up check points, it's their roads, bar owner wants to allow smoking, it's their bar. When the government learns to give us what they themselves expect maybe then people will have less of a problem with it.

14 posted on 07/09/2003 3:02:33 PM PDT by chance33_98 (http://home.frognet.net/~thowell/haunt/ ---->our ghosty page)
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To: Dr Warmoose
I have no problem with the police setting up a dragnet to apprehend fugitives. I do have a problem with such checkpoints being a regular part of daily American life. If you really want to combat drunk driving, recruit more patrol and motorcycle police. The best way to spot drunk drivers is to be in traffing observing how people are driving.

Do you remember when mandatory seat-belt laws were being debated, it was asserted that no one would ever be pulled over for not wearing a seat-belt. It was to be only a secondary offense or fine on top of whatever traffic violation you were pulled over for. How soon we forget.

22 posted on 07/09/2003 3:49:17 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est.)
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To: Dr Warmoose
If the car is in motion, then no. At that point, it becomes a weapon. If, however, the car is parked, I think we should be able to sit in it and imbibe freely. Why anyone would want to, I have no idea.

Please stop calling us libertines. It's about as funny as "liberaltarian" - which is to say, not in the slightest.
35 posted on 07/09/2003 5:40:50 PM PDT by Xenalyte (I may not agree with your bumper sticker, but I'll defend to the death your right to stick it)
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To: Dr Warmoose; jmc813
althought I do not consider my self a Liberdopian
I have been labled such on a recent thread by a Drug warrior.

That being said, I think these road blocks are going over the line

After a nice dinner and a beer with my meal, these stops could find me impaired.
The DWI laws are to strict. the .08 limit is a joke.
anything over .10 is still questionable
Since I am going to the outer banks in a week
I think I will have my kids do all the driving after dinner......

And these stops for seatbelt compliance is another stupid law, it was supposed to be a passive law
It used to be you could not be pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt.
They have gone over the line here
53 posted on 07/10/2003 7:59:55 AM PDT by vin-one (I wish i had something clever to put in this tag)
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To: Dr Warmoose
since no one has answered your question regarding drunk driving properly, please allow me.

First of all, you do not have an understanding of libertarian philosophy (I could be mean spirited here, and say you're trolling for flames, etc, however...) Libertarians do not, on principle, initiate force or fraud against a person or their property. This is called the principle of "non-initiation of force".

"Public" roads are owned by all of us, through our tax dollars. Getting a drivers license is a privilege, not a right. So, when you get a drivers license, you, as an adult, agree to a contract to use public roads where society has set forth rules of use of said public roads. These include common sense issues like using turn signals and only driving in one lane at a time. You also agree to abide by the speed limits, and to not drive drunk.

When you drive drunk, you are initiating fraud against the public. That is a "crime", because you have violated the terms of your contract (to not drive drunk on public roads).

Life is about freedom to make choices, and taking responsibility for the consequences. You are free to make a choice (to rob my place of business, for example), but you must be responsible for the consequences (that I will shoot you).

So, DUI and DWI laws are ok. Seat belt laws, on the other hand, are not ok. That is a stupid law, where the actions for your decision to not wear a seat belt do not harm anyone but you (except possibly your family).

Private insurance companies should be free to mandate, as part of your vehicle insurance policy, that you must wear your seatbelt, or you will not be eligible for their payout in the event that you do not. But it should not be a law, and not wearing your seatbelt should not be "probable cause" for the police to pull you over and search your vehicle.

I hope this answers your question.

54 posted on 07/10/2003 8:03:32 AM PDT by bc2
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