Warner defends colleges/ Cites benefits of out-of-state students

Richmond Times Dispatch (Times Dispatch, Disgrace,Distort (whatever) ^ | Aug 29, 2003 | MICHAEL HARDY

[putupon]

Gov. Mark R. Warner yesterday concentrated on education issues ranging from a dispute over banning all guns on high school grounds to his soon-to-be-released program proposing educational reforms.

Additionally, the governor defended state colleges' enrollment of so many out-of-state students, a revenue-boosting practice that some complain denies admission of more Virginia students.

[putupon]

Out of state Med school student averages:
12% out of state nat'l average, 40% Virginia average (1997). It has to be worse now w/ the new school opening in Blacksburg w/ 70% out of state (private, but somehow connected w/ VT)

Qualified students who have, and families have, always paid taxes here for generations rejected for admission.

What's an even bigger insult than the out of state students are the Out of United States Students (who pay the samre tuition as out of state US citizens) taking up space.

Bottom line to Virginia citizen who has to go out of state (98-'02 numbers):

$280K vs. $40K debt.

And now we hear the crappola from our carpetbagging limo-liberal from Conn. guv'nor about how great it is, being for the diversity and whatnot.

[angkor]

State-supported educational institutions are supposed to be precisely that" "state-supported."

Warner's focus on "profitability" at the expense of educating Virginia citizens - who pay and have paid taxes to support these institutions - is arrogant, addlebrained, and unseemly.

[only1percent]

What's worth more to the taxpayers of Virginia -- UVA being a world class institution, which denies admission to most Virginia natives who apply, or UVA being reduced to the level of (say) Florida State, while STILL rejecting most Viriginia natives, just a somewhat lower percentage.

(As it is, UVA actually gives a significant preference to in-state applicants, which is something that other world class public colleges don't do, or do to a much lesser extent -- examples are Michigan and Berkeley.)

There aren't many industries left in which the United States has clear, worldwide dominance. Higher education is one of them, and doing great damage one of the best institutions of higher education for parochial reasons won't help Virginians one bit.

[putupon]

MCV, (which is similar to all other state schools in instate/out of state ratio)- approx 6K applicants ('96) for 160 slots, 90+% w/ the needed GPA and MCAT scores or they wouldn't bother to apply. They couldn't find 88% (the avg. of other states) instate students out of that number?

In addition, they had to take them from many middle eastern countries and other 3rd world dirtholes instead for "diversity"?

This makes VA "worldclass"?

The better half & I are paying 240K, with interest accruing as we speak, just so progrssives can say their pretty BS words like "diversity, worldclass, yada,yada,yada"?

I would discuss this furthur, but all this leftist drivel makes me have to go BARF.

[.cnI redruM]

Take back the legislature first. They are the ones that vote on how much $$$ universities get from state taxes. When the legislature tells VPI that Virginia taxpayers do not need to support a university that fails to educate Virginians, those admissions figures will change.

[putupon]

Good point, the senate needs a complete overhaul and the house could use a good cleaning too.

[tdunbar]

Although the University is a public institution and an agency of the Commonwealth of Virginia, it receives less than 10 percent of its support from state tax dollars. In the early 1990s, as the state dealt with declining revenues and the rising costs of mandated programs, its share of University support dropped significantly and never fully recovered. Recent cuts have reduced this level of funding even further. Coming on the heels of a $4.8 million cut in 2001-2002, reductions in the University's state appropriation for 2002-2003 are $41.8 million, a 25 percent decrease. Reductions in 2003-2004 are projected to be $51.6 million, a 31 percent decrease.

These cuts have had a significant impact on nearly all areas of the University, especially the College of Arts & Sciences and the schools of architecture, education, and nursing, which rely on state funds for the bulk of their support. Some operations, such as the University Library and the information technology division, are almost entirely dependent on state funds.

Even before these cuts, the University received far less state funding per student than do top public peers. In 2002-2003, the state appropriation per in-state student was $9,748, far below that of peer institutions such as the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill, which received $22,484 per in-state student. This gap will likely widen as reductions in state support continue.

[only1percent]

You may have misread my comments. I was speaking only of the University of Virginia, at Charlottesville, not higher education in Virginia generally.

MCV is not a leading medical school. In my view, it is completely appropriate for run-of-the-mill state funded medical schools to prefer home state people, and I don't mean to defend the state of Viriginia in doing otherwise.

My comments were specific to the University of Virginia in Charlottesville, which IS a leading institution and which SHOULD do whatever it can to stay that way, including encouraging the best and brightest from other states and countries to attend there. This is the exact >opposite< of the liberal conception of diversity, which is, in fact, about rewarding favored groups and undermining American leadership. Getting the best from wheverer they are, and bringing them to the schools where they help cement American dominance in key knowledge areas, is a wondefully conservative goal.

[putupon]

University of Virginia in Charlottesville, which IS a leading institution and which SHOULD do whatever it can to stay that way, including encouraging the best and brightest from other states and countries to attend there

I am aware that for those w/out an affirmative action or 3rd world diversity pass, the standards for admission at UVa are much higher than other schools. However, with the sheer number of applicants, I find it hard to believe that an equally intellegent Virginian was not available for every slot in UVa's med school.

As for your leftwing "diversity" pablum, if you believe that because a neurosurgeon sat next to a Pakistani in class, he can remove a brain tumor better than one who did not, then you are not giving any credence to the "we are smarter" argument you bring forth, IMHO.

On another related issue brought up here, being the spouse of a 'Hoo, and in a family full of 'Hoos, I would like for all to know that the snotty, wine and cheese, elitist stereotype, while well deserved, does not permeate the entire Alumni Association.

Those with the genuine class that a graduate of Mr. Jefferson's University should have, are comfortable enough with their intellectual superiority that they have no need to go around wearing it on their sleeve.

Now, in another matter also related to snotty elitist universities,

GO HOO's, beat Duke, first step on the way to the '03 ACC Championship.
Tommorrow, 7:00 PM, be there, or be nobody.

One final item related snotty elitist medical centers:
When it comes to arrogance, Puke leaves UVa in the dust, but they let Americans who needed transplanted organs die while they put them in an illegal alien, whose blood type did not match (& they continue going around pretending to be a bunch of Einsteins.)

Maybe that was for "diversity" too.

The lawyers are having a field day diversifying Puke's malpractice carrier's money over that one.

[only1percent]

The best and brightest do come from all over the country (not just Virginia) and from all over the world (not just the United States). Acknowledging this is simply fact. (There were a lot of foreign accents in the labs where the Manhattan Project, and every susbsequent scientific innovation in the U.S., took place...)

he liberal version of diversity says "we don't care about merit, just give us different skin colors." The conservative version of diversity says, "we only care about merit, whatever skin colors or national origin it may have." The "version" that says, "we only care about merit so long as it wears white skin and was born in the U.S.," well, that's not conservatism, its simply racism.

And as far as tumors go, it won't be long before half the practicing physicians in the United States are South Asian immigrants or their first genreation children. New Jersey hit that point 5 years ago, I think, at least among doctors under 40. And there isn't one medical school or residency program anywhere that gives an Indian or Pakistani one extra point above a white American ...

[putupon]

Nobody is talking about residencies, they are there for the taking for anyone after med school. More openings than applicants at that stage of a medical career.

The point with my comment you were drawing from is that the accent and melanin level of the person at the next desk have no bearing on what you learn in class. That is a social engineering concept with no relevance in learning the hard sciences.

It is also the same liberal Kumbaya BS that UVa used to admit the student that last year was asked to leave after the "so long, farewell, have fun in Paradise w/ your 72 virgins" letter from him was found in his brother's pocket as he (the brother) was caught trying to enter Israel on a suicide bombing mission.

It is the med schools themselves that have limited openings. The med schools reject many qualified applicants every year, and for every foriegner admitted, an opportunity is denied to an American. For every out of state student admitted, an opportunity is denied a Virginian.

There is no doubt there are many intelligent people in this world and it would be nice if they could all go to whatever school thet wanted, but life is not fair.

What else is not fair, is giving away something that belongs to the taxpayers and citizens of any state or country to someone else.

Taxpayers and citizens are the owners of a state's resources. When you give it away, you are STEALING from a fellow citizen to give to a stranger.

In my and the wife's case, The Commonwealth of Virginia has stolen over $240,000.00.

[putupon]

Although the University is a public institution and an agency of the Commonwealth of Virginia, it receives less than 10 percent of its support from state tax dollars

So how come Casteen had to sell out (not that he really needed his arm twisted) to Warner and Kilgore and almost screw the whole ACC expansion just to maintain favor with the politicians?

I've heard the 10% figure for years from the "let's go private, we only get 10% anyhow" people. Then others say "the Commonwealth will never let you do it, you're wasting your time".

I agree with both.

I would love to see The University go private and tell the Commonwealth where they could stick their 10% (and their are enough deep pocket alums wiling to make up that 10% and more), but the government not finding a way to keep UVa from doing so are slim and none.

Now to what really matters most (let's keep our prorities straight here)Go 'Hoo's, Beat Duke.