Posted on 03/15/2004 3:34:31 AM PST by DoorGunner
The breadth of Hindu religion accommodates a large variety of religious concepts. Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan called it 'Hindu hospitality'. As a result we see varied forms of practice of Hinduism. From the surface it may even appear like different religions with no common thread or goal. Shankaracharya (788-820 C.E.) was responsible for the 'synthesis' of Hindu religion. But for the effort of Shankara, the chaotic and disorganized practices of many factions of Hinduism probably would have resulted in many splintered groups of religions. Shankara brilliantly unified the different practices into one religion that we call Hinduism today. Though the diversity continued, they were now under the large, hospitable umbrella of Hinduism or Sanatana Dharma.
Brahman, Atman, Karma and Gunas
The concept of God in Upanishads is the 'Brahman' or the Universal Soul (synonymous with The Absolute, Supreme Being or World Spirit - param-atman). Every human being has an atman (individual soul - jiva-atman) that resembles the Universal Soul that is temporarily separated from It. It is compared to a fire that is the Supreme Being, from flames of which come the sparks, which are the human souls. However, the human soul has an undiminished desire to join its creator. The newer religions like Christianity and Islam also profess that God created man in His own image. The goal of every human, in all religions, is to 'seek and find God'.
Brahman of the Upanishads is the impersonal, transcendent power that is responsible for all creation and the cosmos. This World Soul can only be described as what it is not, only in negative terms. It is nirguna (without qualities), nirakara (without form), nirvishesha (without particularity) and nirupadhika (without limitations). In Brhadaranyaka Upanishad, when Yajnavalkya was questioned by his students to describe God, he could only say, "It is not this and it is not that" (neti, neti, neti). This unlimited, amorphous, colorless, characterless and formless Universal Spirit is omnipresent and omnipotent and like cosmic energy, it is pervasive, unseen and indescribable. There is, however, a danger of describing the Supreme Being in negative terms. This renders it totally impersonal and dispels a positive image of God. Buddha circumvented this problem by calling the eternal spirit nothing but righteousness or dharma, the codes of ethical living that all humans should follow. Buddha said that the cause for all suffering was sorrow (dukkha) and it can only be countered by renouncing 'thirst' (tanha, desire), by living a life of moral and ethical standard (refer to Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path). To attain nirvana, Buddha suggested taking a non-extreme course called the Middle Path. It is the essence of Buddha's dharma teachings. This path is between extreme self-denial (as in Jainism) and indiscriminate self-indulgence (as in the materialistic Charvakas). Though atheistic at its inception, Buddhism ultimately used Buddha himself as its icon and God. Eventually, even Hindus accepted Buddha as one of Vishnu avatars.
Ordinary people (Hindus) needed a God they could conceptualize, for worship. To go about their daily lives with devotion, the common folks needed a symbol, a personal God. Upanishads that described Nirguna Brahman as the Universal Soul also offered a Saguna Brahman, who is the antithesis of Nirguna Brahman. Saguna Brahman, who is the manifested form of the World Soul, is full of attributes and character. It is a perfect being, perfect consciousness and perfect freedom (sat-chit-ananda). Hindus have perceived Saguna Brahman as different godheads to be worshipped. As the religion evolved, came into popularity - Shiva, Vishnu and Shakti, all different manifestations of the Supreme Being. Later many more god-figures appeared as avatars and incarnates, all emanating from the above three. A trinity of Gods-Brahma the creator, Vishnu the preserver and Shiva the destroyer-also became popular. Shakti (same as Durga and Kali) became the mother goddess. Imbued with deep devotion, a Hindu could now worship any icon, sometimes in noisy rituals and sometimes in quiet contemplative meditation, which would have been difficult with only an abstract, negative 'non-entity' like Nirguna Brahman. But the central belief of Hinduism remained unshaken that all these forms of godheads sprung from one Universal Soul. This makes Hinduism unique in the sense that it is a monotheistic religion with a pantheon of manifested forms of God. The common misconception that Hindu religion is polytheistic is simply untrue.
Shankara is credited with bringing unity to Hindu religion when it was dangerously close to schism, especially between Shaiva and Vaishnava cults. He introduced the Panchayatna form of worship, which recognized five different godheads as part of Hindu religion. This effort effectively brought organization to the religion and also gave the individual devotee freedom of worship. Shankara called the daily struggles of man an illusion (maya), a puppetry (lila) played by God's hands. This is a significant phase in the life of a human soul, but only in a marginal way. The human soul functions in another plane, a second level of truth, vying to rejoin with the Universal Soul. The Absolute, however, is responsible for many transformations of the empirical world though the events of the daily world are deemed as illusions. This transformation depends on the three gunas that govern the events of the world. They are sattva (goodness, virtue), rajas (power, passion) and tamas (dullness, inertia). All earthly events, like the laws of nature, are guided by one of the three gunas or a combination thereof. There should be a balance between them for harmonious workings of the world. Disequilibria will lead to chaos, war, suffering, corruption and destruction. The concept of gunas is well documented in Sri Krishna's rendition of the sermon (Bhagavad-Gita) to Arjuna in the battlefield of Kurukshetra. (Also refer to Kapila's Sankhya philosophy).
Hindus also believe in the laws of karma. All actions, intended or unintended, result in karma. It is the account of a person's action. Karma is independent of God and religion. Apostasy from religion does neither absolve nor vitiate one's karma. God does not enjoin man to behave in a certain way. The basic guidelines of ethics and truth are described in the Hindu Dharma document (Dharmashastra of Manu) but the actions of a person are left to his or her discretion. However, there are consequences for all karma, good or bad, and these are permanently etched in the 'memory' of the soul. The soul carries this memory of karma, like a shroud around it, from birth to birth (punarjanma). When enough good karma is accumulated, the soul is liberated (moksha) from the cycle of births (samsara), to be eternally linked to the Absolute or the Universal World Soul. The manner of this linkage between jiva-atman and parama-atman, differs in the three major philosophies of Hinduism - Advaita, Vishishtadvaita and Dvaita.
The concept of retributive justice that follows karma is a deterrent to immoral life and a strong incentive for a person to live an ethical and decent life. This surely helps in social harmony and brings about societal stability. The concepts of karma, gunas, parama-atman and jiva-atman in Sanatana Dharma are unique and extraordinary.
Selected direct quotes, from the article: ...we see varied forms of practice of Hinduism. From the surface it may even appear like different religions with no common thread or goal
Brahman of the Upanishads is the impersonal, transcendent power ... this unlimited, amorphous, colorless, characterless and formless... Imbued with deep devotion, a Hindu could now worship any icon, sometimes in noisy rituals and sometimes in quiet contemplative meditation, Shankara called the daily struggles of man an illusion (maya), a puppetry (lila) played by God's hands. This is a significant phase in the life of a human soul, but only in a marginal way. The human soul functions in another plane, a second level of truth, vying to rejoin with the Universal Soul.
...the actions of a person are left to his or her discretion. However, there are consequences for all karma, good or bad, and these are permanently etched in the 'memory' of the soul. The soul carries this memory of karma, like a shroud around it, from birth to birth (punarjanma). When enough good karma is accumulated, the soul is liberated (moksha) from the cycle of births (samsara), to be eternally linked to the Absolute or the Universal World Soul.
The concept of God in Upanishads is the 'Brahman' or the Universal Soul (synonymous with The Absolute, Supreme Being or World Spirit - param-atman).
Hindus also believe in the laws of karma. All actions, intended or unintended, result in karma. It is the account of a person's action. Karma is independent of God and religion. Apostasy from religion does neither absolve nor vitiate one's karma. God does not enjoin man to behave in a certain way.
http://www.indianest.com/hinduism/039.htm
There are those who teach that THIS god is the God described in the Bible. I believe that THIS "god" is utterly different: The God of the Bible is a person, who cares about the fall of a sparrow, and who loves us so much that He sent His Son, to die for our sins so that we (if we accept His Lordship) do not have to bear the consequences of our sins. [This leaves no room for Karma.]
DG
Hebrews 9
26Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation
of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the
ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27Just as man is
destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28so Christ
was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will
appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those
who are waiting for him.
Judges 2:17
Yet they would not listen to their judges but prostituted themselves
to other gods and worshiped them. Unlike their fathers, they quickly
turned from the way in which their fathers had walked, the way of
obedience to the LORD 's commands.
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: YHWH is our G-d, YHWH is one.
YHWH is the One G-d and the G-d that I worship.
OK
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: YHWH is our G-d, YHWH is one.
Excellent verse.
YHWH is the One G-d and the G-d that I worship.
Well, I was just a little confused. I imagined, from a different thread, that you believe in re-incarnation. Your response here, indicates that you are a believer in the Bible, and YHWH, Whose book the Bible is.
Since re-incarnation is a concept foreign to the Bible, I must have been mistaken, in thinking that you were defending the religion of re-incarnation. My apologies, for this gross error.
DG
Matthew 17
10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
Yehoshua said that Elias came and people didn't recognize him. Then goes on to mention that the desciples understood that he meant John the Baptist. If they were wrong how come Yehoshua didn't quickly correct their thinking?
Of course they knew that He meant Elijah. He had told them so, explicitly, at an earlier occasion:
[NASB]
Matthew 11:
14 "And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who
was to come.
15 "He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
The part about "ears" does not mean physical ears, or physical hearing. It has to do with understanding the meaning of the words " John himself is Elijah."
Those words could not have meant that the "person" Elijah was the "person" John [the baptizer]. If they had had this meaning, John [the baptizer] would not have explicitly DENIED that he was Elijah:
John 1:
19 This is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent to
him priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are
you?"
20 And he confessed and did not deny, but confessed, "I am
not the Christ."
21 They asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" And he said, "I
am not." "Are you the Prophet?" And he answered, "No."
If they were wrong how come Yehoshua didn't quickly correct their thinking?
They weren't wrong. (See above) But, John [the baptizer] explicitly denied that he was Elijah. Then, what did Yeshua mean?
Luke 1
17 "It is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit
and power of Elijah, TO TURN THE HEARTS OF THE FATHERS
BACK TO THE CHILDREN, and the disobedient to the attitude of the
righteous, so as to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
John [the baptizer] had "the spirit and power of Elijah." So, what does that mean?
Luke 1:
15 "For he will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will (22)
drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while
yet in his mother's womb.
It meant that John would be "filled with the Holy Spirit," in the same way that Elijah had been.
So, therefore, these verses have NOTHING to do with re-incarnation. If they did, then John [the baptizer] lied, when he DENIED being Elijah.
DG
Jesus is clearly saying that you must be born and reborn again to cleanse your soul of bad karma. Then you can be like him and enter the Kingdom of God. Until that time, you will be stuck in the cycle of birth and rebirth.
The bible says one thing, the upanishads another.
So what?
Perhaps.
The bible says one thing, the upanishads another.
Yes. they are completely incompatible.
So what?
So...
Matthew 6:24
"No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and
love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other."
DG
Jesus is clearly saying that you must be born and reborn again to cleanse your soul of bad karma. Then you can be like him and enter the Kingdom of God. Until that time, you will be stuck in the cycle of birth and rebirth.
He is, of course, saying absolutely nothing like that. While I work on a more substantive answer, perhaps this will be of value:
Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the
judgment:
DG
Yes. they are completely incompatible.
That is completely incorrect.
Tell me, have you read the upanishads?
You wrote:
John 3
1 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the
Jews.
2 The same came to Jesus by night and said unto Him, "Rabbi, we
know that thou art a teacher come from God; for no man can do
these miracles that thou doest, unless God be with him."
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily I say unto thee,
unless a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God."
Jesus is clearly saying that you must be born and reborn again to cleanse your soul of bad karma. Then you can be like him and enter the Kingdom of God. Until that time, you will be stuck in the cycle of birth and rebirth.
This is a classic example of two basic errors:
1. Taking a passage out of context; not only its immediate context, and the context of the rest of the Bible.
2. Attempting to force-fit concepts from a foreign religion, into the Bible.
Consider the above quoted passage, with more of the surrounding context:
[With my comments interspersed, in BOLD]
[NASB]
John 3
1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a
ruler of the Jews;
2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we
know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do
these signs that You do unless God is with him."
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless
one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
[This is what was quoted, above.]
4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He
cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can
he?"
[Nicodemus, "a ruler of the Jews," did not even imagine that Yeshua was talking about re-incarnation.]
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of
water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[Here, Yeshua is talking about baptism in water, and baptism in the Holy Spirit. Not any kind of "human" birth process.]
6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is
born of the Spirit is spirit.
[Yeshua reiterates that He is NOT talking about a "flesh" re-birth, but a "spiritual" rebirth.]
7 "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
8 "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it,
but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is
everyone who is born of the Spirit."
[Yeshua again reiterates that he is talking about a "spiritual" (even invisible) re-birth.]
9 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can these things be?"
10 Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of
Israel and do not understand these things?
[Clearly, He is teaching something which is not foreign to the faith of Israel.]
11 "Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and
testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our
testimony.
12 "If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you
believe if I tell you heavenly things?
[He is talking about "heavenly things," not "earthly things."]
13 "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who
descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
14 "As the Son of Man be lifted up;
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only
begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but
have eternal life.
[Those who "believe in" the Son of Man/Son of God "have eternal life.]
[He does not say, "Whoever is reincarnated many times, and works off all of his bad karma, shall become one with the eternal soul."]
17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge
the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not
believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the
name of the only begotten Son of God.
[One can be "judged," or "saved" (ie. have eternal life).]
[If one does not want to be "judged," then he should "believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God."]
19 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the
world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their
deeds were evil.
20 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not
come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
21 "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that
his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."
[ What/Who is this "Light?"]
John 9
5 "While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world."
[Yeshua (Jesus) is "the Light of the world."]
"You must be born again" means a SPIRITUAL rebirth, not a physical one. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with reincarnation, which concept is foreign to both Biblical Christianity, and Biblical Judaism.
DG
Tell me, have you read the upanishads?
No. I assume that the original article on this thread is a reasonably accurate presentation of Hindism, since it agrees with other sources that I have read. Until someone effectively refutes the article, I will use it as a description of the Hindu "god." This "god' is in no way similar to the God of the Bible.
Nor, is the religion of Hinduism, et. al. in any way like the religion described in the Holy Bible. As I see it, one can choose which of these religions to follow, but one cannot follow BOTH.
DG
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