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The Pascha miracle of Holy Fire appears at the tomb of Jesus Christ (pictures)
yahoo.com ^ | Sat Apr 10, 3:27 PM ET

Posted on 04/11/2004 1:46:16 AM PDT by Destro

The Pascha miracle of Holy Fire appears at the tomb of Jesus Christ (pictures)

Christian worshipers surround what is traditionally believed to be the tomb of Jesus Christ, during the Holy Fire ceremony during Easter celebrations at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem's Old City, Saturday, April 10, 2004. The ceremony is meant to assure the worshippers that Jesus has not forgotten them and is sending a message of hope through the fire. (AP Photo/Brennan Linsley)

Israeli police in blue uniforms push back pilgrims and Evzones, right, members of the Greek Presidential guard, who escorted Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem Irineos I, unseen background right, as he exits the tomb, during scuffles in the Holy Fire ceremony at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in east Jerusalem's Old City Saturday, April 10, 2004. Thousands of Christian Orthodox pilgrims wait outside the tomb, where Jesus Christ is traditionally believed to be buried, for hours until the Greek Orthodox Patriarch opens the doors carrying the holy flame which is then used to light all the other candles of the faithfull. (AP Photo/Lefteris Pitarakis)

A Greek Orthodox monk, lights the candles of the tomb, where Jesus Christ is traditionally believed to be buried, with Holy Fire following the Holy Fire ceremony in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher at east Jerusalem's Old City Saturday, April 10, 2004. Thousands of Christian Orthodox pilgrims wait outside the tomb for hours until the Greek Orthodox Patriarch opens the doors carrying the holy flame which is then used to light all the other candles of the faithfull. (AP Photo/Lefteris Pitarakis)

A Russian Orthodox monk, lifts up candles with Holy Fire as crowds of orthodox Christian worshippers and clergymen light candles with Holy Fire from each other during a ceremony in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in east Jerusalem's Old City Saturday, April 10, 2004. Thousands of Christian Orthodox pilgrims wait outside the tomb, where Jesus Christ is traditionally believed to be buried, for hours until the Greek Orthodox Patriarch opens the doors carrying the holy flame which is then used to light all the other candles of the faithfull. (AP Photo/Lefteris Pitarakis)

The lights of a candlelight procession leave trails as Christian worshippers surround what is traditionally believed to be the tomb of Jesus Christ, during the Holy Fire ceremony during Easter celebrations at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem's Old City, Saturday, April 10, 2004. (AP Photo/Brennan Linsley)

Christian worshippers hold candles at the Holy Fire ceremony during Easter celebrations at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem's Old City, Saturday, April 10, 2004. The ceremony is meant to assure the worshippers that Jesus has not forgotten them and is sending a message of hope through the fire. (AP Photo/Oded Balilty)

A Christian worshipper holds a candle at the Holy Fire ceremony during Easter celebrations at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem's Old City, Saturday, April 10, 2004. The ceremony is meant to assure the worshippers that Jesus has not forgotten them and is sending a message of hope through the fire. (AP Photo/Oded Balilty)

Christian worshippers and clergymen light candles outside what is traditionally believed to be the tomb of Jesus Christ during the Holy Fire ceremony during Easter celebrations at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem's Old City, Saturday, April 10, 2004. The ceremony is meant to assure the worshippers that Jesus has not forgotten them and is sending a message of hope through the fire. (AP Photo/Kevin Frayer)

Orthodox Christians light candles inside the Church of the Holy Sepulchre during the 'Ceremony of the Holy Fire' in Jerusalem, April 10, 2004. Christian faithfuls believe the church is built on the site of Jesus' last resting place after his body was removed from the cross. The fire is first taken from inside the tomb and then rapidly spreads throughout the ancient church as faithful slight each other's candles. REUTERS/Reinhard Krause

A Christian worshipper holds candles at the Holy Fire ceremony during Easter celebrations at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem's Old City, Saturday, April 10, 2004. The ceremony is meant to assure the worshippers that Jesus has not forgotten them and is sending a message of hope through the fire. (AP Photo/Oded Balilty)

Christian worshippers hold candles as they walk around the Edicule, the place that is traditionally believed to be the tomb of Jesus Christ during the Holy Fire ceremony during Easter celebrations at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem's Old City, Saturday, April 10, 2004. The ceremony is meant to assure the worshippers that Jesus has not forgotten them and is sending a message of hope through the fire. (AP Photo/Kevin Frayer)

Christian worshipers hold candles during the Holy Fire ceremony during Easter celebrations at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem's Old City, Saturday, April 10, 2004. The ceremony is meant to assure the worshippers that Jesus has not forgotten them and is sending a message of hope through the fire. (AP Photo/Oded Balilty)

Christian worshipers hold candles during the Holy Fire ceremony during Easter celebrations at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem's Old City, Saturday, April 10, 2004. The ceremony is meant to assure the worshippers that Jesus has not forgotten them and is sending a message of hope through the fire. (AP Photo/Oded Balilty)

Orthodox Christians light candles inside the Church of the Holy Sepulchre as they celebrate the 'Ceremony of the Holy Fire,' in Jerusalem April 10, 2004. Christian faithful believe the church is built on the site of Jesus' last resting place after his body was removed from the cross. The fire is first taken from inside the tomb and then rapidly spreads throughout the ancient church as the faithful light each other's candles. REUTERS/Goran Tomasevic

An Orthodox Christian man lights candles as he pray inside the Church of the Holy Sepulchre as the 'Ceremony of the Holy Fire' is celebrated, April 10, 2004. Christian faithful believe the church is built on the site of Jesus' last resting place after his body was removed from the cross. The fire is first taken from inside the tomb and then rapidly spreads throughout the ancient church as the faithful light each other's candles. REUTERS/Goran Tomasevic

Orthodox Christians light candles as they pray inside the Church of the Holy Sepulchre during the 'Ceremony of the Holy Fire,' in Jerusalem April 10, 2004. Christian faithful believe the church is built on the site of Jesus' last resting place after his body was removed from the cross. The fire is first taken from inside the tomb and then rapidly spreads throughout the ancient church as the faithful light each other's candles. REUTERS/Goran Tomasevic

Orthodox Christians light candles inside the Church of the Holy Sepulchre as the they celebrate the 'Ceremony of the Holy Fire' in Jerusalem, April 10, 2004. Christian devotees believe the church was built on the site of Jesus' last resting place after his body was removed from the cross. The fire is first taken from inside the tomb and then rapidly spreads throughout the ancient church as the faithful light each other's candles. REUTERS/Reinhard Krause

Miracle in the Orthodox Church: The Ceremony of the Holy Light in Jerusalem

This ceremony takes place in the Orthodox Church of the Resurrection in the Holy city of Jerusalem in such a way that bewilders the soul of the Christians. It takes place every single year, at the same time, in the same manner, and on the same spot.

On Easter Saturday, at noon, the Orthodox Patriarch, or any other Orthodox Archbishop, enters the Holy Sepulchre, recites special prayers and remains waiting. Sometimes the waiting is long, sometimes short. The crowd, in the darkened church, repeats continually with a loud voice: "Lord, have mercy." (Kyrie eleison). At a certain moment the Holy Light flashes from the depth of the Holy Sepulchre in a supernatural way, miraculously, and lights up the little lamp of olive oil put on the edge of it. The Patriarch (or the Archbishop), after having read some prayers, lights up the two clusters of 33 candles he is holding, and begins to distribute the Holy Light to the multitude of pilgrims, who receive it with great emotion, accompanied with the pealing of bells, acclamations, and an unbridled enthusiasm.

The Holy Light is not only distributed by the Archbishop, but operates also by itself. It emits from the Holy Sepulchre having a gleam of a hue completely different from that of natural light. It sparkles, it flashes like lightning, it flies like a dove around the tabernacle of the the Holy Sepulchre, and lights up the unlit lamps of olive oil hanging in front of it. It whirls from one side of the church to the other. It enters to some of the chapels inside the church, as for instance the chapel of the Calvery (at a higher level than the Holy Sepulchre) and lights up the little lamps. It lights up also the candles of certain pilgrims. In fact there are some very pious pilgrims who, every time they attended this ceremony, noticed that their candles lit up on the own accord!

This divine light also presents some special peculiarities: As soon as it appears it has a bluish hue and does not burn. At the first moments of its appearance, if it touches the face, or the mouth, or the hands, it does not burn.

The appearance of the Holy Light is an event which occurs every year in front of thousands of visual witnesses. Nobody can deny it. On the contrary, this miracle can reinforce those who have lack of faith.

From "Differences between the Orthodox and Roman Catholicism", a book by Irene Econimides

Description of the Miracle of Holy Light (Holy Fire) that happens every year in Jerusalem

The first written account about Holy Fire (Holy Light)traces to the fourth century, but authors write about events that occurred in the first century. So ss. Ioann Damaskin and G. Nissky narrates about apostle Peter who saw Holy Light in Holy Sepulchre after Christ's resurrection. "One can trace the miracle throughout the centuries in the many itineraries to the Holy Land. "The Russian abbot Daniel, in his itinerary written in the years 1106–07, presents the "Miracle of the Holy Light" and the ceremonies that frame it in a very detailed manner. He recalls how the Patriarch goes into the Sepulchre-chapel (the Anastasis) with two candles. The Patriarch kneels in front of the stone on which Christ was laid after his death and says certain prayers, upon which the miracle occurs. Light proceeds from the core of the stone — a blue, indefinable light which after some time kindles closed oil lamps as well as the Patriarch’s the two candles. This light is "The Holy Fire", and it spreads to all people present in the Church. The ceremony surrounding "The Miracle of the Holy Fire" may be the oldest unbroken Christian ceremony in the world. From the fourth century A.D. all the way up to our own time, sources recall this awe-inspiring event. From these sources it becomes clear that the miracle has been celebrated on the same spot, on the same feast day, and in the same liturgical frame throughout all these centuries.[2]

Every time when non-orthodox try to obtain Holy Fire they failed. Three of these attempts known. Two occured in the twelfth century when priests of Rome church tried force out Orthodox but by they confession these finished with God's punishment. [3,4] But the most miraculous event occured in 1579 year, the year when God clearly testified for who only may be given His miracle.

"Once the Armenians (monofisits - ed.) paid the Turks, who then occupied the Holy Land, in order to obtain permission for their Patriarch to enter the Holy Sepulchre, the Orthodox Patriarch was standing sorrowfully with his flock at the exit of the church, near the left column, when the Holy Light split this column vertically and flashed near the Orthodox Patriarch.

A Moslem Muezin, called Tounom, who saw the miraculous event from an adjacent mosque, abandoned immediately the Moslem religion and became an Orthodox Christian. This event took place in 1579 under Sultan Mourad IV, when the Patriarch of Jerusalem was Sophrony IV. (The mentioned split column still exists. It goes back to the XII c. The Orthodox pilgrims embrace it at the "place of the split" as the enter the church).[2, date and name are corrected]

Turkish warriors stood on the wall of a building close to the gate and lightning-struck column . When he saw this striking miracle he cried that Christ is truly God and /leaped down from a height of about ten meters. But he was not killed--stones under him get as soft as wax and his foot was imprinted in the stones. The Turks tried scrape away these prints but they could not destroy them; they were like witnesses [5].

He was burned by the Turks near the Church. His remains, gathered by the Greeks, had laid in the monastery of Panagia till XIX shedding chrism. ? I do not understand this!

Muslims who deny the Passions, Crucifixion and Resurrection of Christ tried to put obstacles in the way of the miracle. Well known Muslim (!) historian Al Biruni wrote: "… a (note: Muslim) governor brought a copper wire instead of a wick (note: of self lighting oil-lamps), in order that it won't ignite and the whole thing would fail to occur. But as the fire descended, the copper burned."[6]

It was not the only attempt. The report written by the English chronicler, Gautier Vinisauf, describes what happened in the year 1192.

"In 1187, the Saracens under the direction of Sultan Salah ad-Din took Jerusalem. In that year, the Sultan desired to be present at the celebration, even though he was not a Christian. Gautier Vinisauf tells us what happened: "On his arrival, the celestial fire descended suddenly, and the assistants were deeply moved...the Saracens... said that the fire which they had seen to come down was produced by fraudulent means. Salah ad-Din, wishing to expose the imposter, caused the lamp, which the fire from Heaven had lighted, to be extinguished, but the lamp relit immediately. He caused it to be extinguished a second time and a third time, but it relit as of itself. Thereupon, the Sultan, confounded, cried out in prophetic transport: 'Yes, soon shall I die, or I shall lose Jerusalem.'"[7]

Pictures and video / I. Miracle pictures of Holy Fire (Holy Light) in Jerusalem

1) In the middle light pillar may be seen, fixed in a moment of the Holy Fire appearance.
2) Candles "itself" have lighten up in an arch in a hand of Armenian clergy.
3) Line of Holy Fire lights may be seen at bottom left. These is not oil-lamps - non-burning oil-lamps may be seen between lights.

Scanned from: © Gubanov Vladimir. Holy Fire: miracles on Holy Sepulchre. Moscow, "Lestvica", ed. 4, 2000, p. 280. Photo made by Blinkov Victor, inking - by author of the site.

Luminous haloes See that form of haloes on marvel picture differs: most part of them does not connected with candles or other sources of light. Taken from: Miraclous of Orthodoxy



TOPICS: Current Events; Orthodox Christian; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; holyfire; pascha
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1 posted on 04/11/2004 1:46:17 AM PDT by Destro
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To: MarMema
bump
2 posted on 04/11/2004 11:11:55 AM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: Destro; Aliska; Canticle_of_Deborah; FormerLib; katnip; OldCorps; kosta50; RusIvan; ...
Christos Anesti, Des.

A lovely post that I will bookmark.

Kristos Voskrese to my ping list.

3 posted on 04/11/2004 11:53:40 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema; All
Voistinu Voskrese, MarMema. Thank You.

Christ is Risen!

4 posted on 04/11/2004 2:37:00 PM PDT by MadelineZapeezda
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To: MarMema

Xristos Voskros


5 posted on 04/11/2004 3:31:41 PM PDT by RussianConservative (Xristos: the Light of the World)
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To: Destro
My question is, how come I've never heard of this before?
6 posted on 04/11/2004 3:44:28 PM PDT by dsc
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To: dsc
It only happens on Orthodox Pascha and is apparently a somewhat-well-kept secret among the Orthodox. I had not heard of it until the day I was brought into the church. Now I can't wait to go and see it.

7 posted on 04/11/2004 3:53:26 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema
I'd like to see it, too.

If I were a reporter, I'd demand that my employer send me to see it. Wonder why that hasn't happened.
8 posted on 04/11/2004 4:03:56 PM PDT by dsc
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To: dsc
Let us know if you go. Here is a large site about it.

site.

here is the website of a Greek psychiatrist who went to see it as a skeptic and returned, gave up his practise, and became a priest. We spoke several years ago through email.

9 posted on 04/11/2004 4:17:21 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: Destro
I thought the Orthodox Easter was on a different day?
10 posted on 04/11/2004 4:43:40 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: Unam Sanctam
This year Easter happens to fall on the same day for both east and west.
11 posted on 04/11/2004 4:47:10 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: MarMema; All
An update from the Eastern Orthodox newsgroup:

Last Update: 11/04/2004 15:11 Hundreds of Christians gather for Easter service in Jerusalem By Amiram Barkat, Haaretz Correspondent, Haaretz Service and Reuters

Hundreds of Christians gathered for the Easter service Sunday at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem, led by Latin patriarch of Jerusalem Michel Sabah.

The number of participants is estimated to be lower this year than other years due to the closure Israel has placed on the territories until after Independence Day, for fear of attacks, Israel Radio reported.

On Good Friday, some 11,000 Christians crowded the church, which Christians consider Christ's last resting place after his body was removed from the cross.

A roar of joy burst from the throats of the worshipers crowding the Holy Sepulcher on Friday afternoon, as out of the darkness the light of two candles suddenly flickered. They were held by the Greek Orthodox patriarch and the Armenian bishop. This was the culmination of the Good Friday procession, in which pilgrims from every strain of Christianity crowded the streets of Jerusalem's Old City, retracing Jesus' path to crucifixion.

Both the Western and Eastern Churches are celebrating Easter on the same day this year, an event that happens rarely because of different calendar calculations. Perhaps this is what prompted Pope John Paul's unexpected Easter appeal for Christian unity on Sunday, saying he hoped the two branches of Christianity that split apart a thousand years ago could one day find reconciliation.

Speaking in Italian at the end of his Easter Sunday mass to tens of thousands of people in St Peter's Square, the Pope noted the calendar coincidence and said he hoped it could become permanent. He said he was praying that all baptized Christians could one day celebrate "this fundamental feast of their faith together.

Groups from Russia, Poland, Greece, the Philippines and Ethiopia on Friday followed the stations of the cross along the cobblestoned Via Dolorosa, or Way of Sorrows, the route Christ took from his trial to his burial, according to tradition.

Faith has it that the fire erupting once a year from the sepulcher lights the candles. But this year another mystery was added. Was it the Greek patriarch who brought the fire, as the Greeks said, or did the Armenian bishop accompany him, as the Armenians assert.

The fire-lighting ceremony has been held annually for more than 1,000 years. For the Orthodox, Armenians, Copts and Assyrians, the ceremony symbolizes the beginning of Christ's resurrection. Only a representative of the Greek Orthodox community and a representative of the Armenian community are allowed into the holy chapel at the sepulcher's entrance. A few minutes later they appear at the windows with candles in their hand. Within seconds the fire lights thousands of candles held by worshipers in the church.

For the past two years, the Greek Orthodox and Armenian leaders have been fighting about the access right to the source of fire. This year they asked the Israeli government to settle the issue. But both previous and present interior ministers kept putting off their decision.

This year, the Jerusalem police told both sides the ceremony would be held in the same format as last year. "We told them we would not allow any riots," police spokesman Shmuel Ben-Ruby said. "If they don't reach an agreement, there will be no ceremony, or only a very small one."

Finally, the Greek Orthodox Patriarch Irineos entered the sepulcher, with Armenian Bishop Vicken close on his heels. An armed police force kept watch inside the church to prevent disturbances.

Outside the church, local shopkeepers - some of whom were selling bootlegged DVDs of Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" - and police said this year's Good Friday turnout was larger than any since the outbreak of the intifada in September 2000.

Worshipers sang and carried icons, candles, flowers and crosses as they walked along the alleys to the Church of the Holy Sepulcher.

One group of about a dozen people, each wearing a crown of thorns, carried a large cross. Another group reenacted the Passion with actors playing the parts of Jesus, Roman soldiers and the disciples.

The procession often ground to a halt as the throng tried to turn sharp corners or pass through narrow passages. Some pilgrims tearfully kissed the pillars of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher as they waited to get in. Once inside, many wiped prayer cloths across the Stone of Unction, where Christ was anointed for burial

12 posted on 04/11/2004 4:52:58 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Aliska
Thanks for pointing that out. I will join the Pope in his intention for unity of the "two lungs" of the Church, east and west.
13 posted on 04/11/2004 5:06:03 PM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: Unam Sanctam
Perhaps they should unify...but which is to defer in humility to the other...west or east...This demonstration of power is occuring under Orthodox auspices not Roman.
14 posted on 04/11/2004 6:01:52 PM PDT by mdmathis6 (The Democrats must be defeated in 2004...." MDMATHIS6, The Anti-Democrat")
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To: Unam Sanctam
I started another thread on this subject last night, but this one has better pictures. In what I posted there is a link to an article in the British Catholic weekly, "The Tablet".

The article is either the same or similar to Holy Fire sets Orthodox rivalry ablaze in Jerusalem

wherein it is stated:

Pope Gregory IX banned Roman Catholics from participating in the ceremony in 1238.

I wonder if the ban was ever lifted or rescinded and if it is binding through the centuries.

Also ""In this worst situation I had to use my emergency light, a cigarette lighter," he later admitted." The article tells of a dispute between the Greek and Armenian patriarch wherein the Greek blew out the Armenian's candle . . .

What was he doing with a lighter?

15 posted on 04/11/2004 6:19:47 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Destro
Beautiful pictures, thank you.
16 posted on 04/11/2004 7:20:57 PM PDT by katnip (Christ is risen!)
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To: mdmathis6
This demonstration of power is occuring under Orthodox auspices not Roman.

Don't worry, we have plenty of miracles in our Church as well.
17 posted on 04/11/2004 7:25:35 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Conservative til I die
Same church - different management.
18 posted on 04/11/2004 7:48:03 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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To: mdmathis6; .45MAN; AAABEST; AKA Elena; al_c; american colleen; Angelus Errare; Annie03; ...
This demonstration of power is occuring under Orthodox auspices not Roman.

Just don't put too much into it as a "divine sign" that Orthodoxy is right and Rome apostate. I don't mind keeping alive ancient traditions, and the fact that a ceremonial lamp has been kept lit continuously is no small miracle itself. But let's not undermine the credibility of Orthodoxy by superstitiously claiming a real miracle where none appear to exist, and where petty rivalry has mared this "miracle" in the recent past.

Holy Fire sets Orthodox rivalry ablaze in Jerusalem
By Victoria Clark in Jerusalem
(Filed: 26/04/2003)

Jerusalem's Orthodox Christians celebrating Easter this weekend may be set to make their own contribution to the region's violence when they gather at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem this afternoon for their annual Holy Fire ceremony.

In the absence of an 11th-hour agreement between the Greek and Armenian clergy who traditionally perform the ceremony, the Israeli authorities fear serious violence and have threatened - for the first time in the Holy Fire's more than 1,000-year history - to restrict attendance.

For the city's Orthodox Christians and thousands of pilgrims from the former Soviet Union and the Balkans the ceremony is the season's chief attraction. Undeterred by the two-and-a-half-year-old intifada and wider Middle Eastern unrest, many camped in the old Crusader church last night to participate in what most believe is a true miracle.

If all goes according to plan, at 2pm today the Greek Orthodox patriarch of Jerusalem, accompanied by an Armenian bishop, will disappear inside the darkened shrine containing what remains of Christ's empty tomb to keep an appointment with God. A few minutes later they will leave, their candles ignited by a miraculously created fire, to share the blessing with the faithful.

Within seconds the church will be ablaze with the light of thousands of candles. The struggle of the faithful to keep their holy fires alight without burning anyone, while struggling towards the single door and fresh air, begins.

But the Israeli authorities have good reason to fear another kind of conflagration this year. Relations between the clergy who preside over the miracle have been inflamed since last year when the ceremony was marred by a brawl within the shrine.

Out of sight of the faithful, the two churchmen - the Armenian participating for the third time, the Greek for the first - fiercely disagreed on a matter of precedence. Should the Greek patriarch emerge first with the Holy Fire or the Armenian? Would the Greek or the Armenian Orthodox community be first to receive the light?

When Patriarch Irineos fought his corner by twice blowing out the Armenian's candle, the Armenian felt obliged to resort to a shameful expedient to obtain some Holy Fire.

"In this worst situation I had to use my emergency light, a cigarette lighter," he later admitted.

Sensing serious trouble, Greek and Armenian clergy joined in the fray and soon Israeli police arrived in the space no larger than two telephone boxes. "There was no hitting, only pulling and pushing,', said the Armenian Fr Samuel, recalling that he did manage to relieve the patriarch of one of his shoes in the scuffle.

"It's just the spirit of the 19th century again," chuckled Bishop Theophanis, a Greek resident in Jerusalem, explaining that the new patriarch is determined to be a doughtier defender of Greek prerogatives in the holy places than his elderly predecessor.

The matter has remained unresolved all year. During intense talks with both sides the Israelis have suggested that the Greeks be given the benefit of the doubt this Easter.

The Armenian patriarch favoured the compromise but was overruled by 15 out of 18 of his senior clergy. There are fears that young men representing both communities will be ready to fight if the occasion demands.

"It doesn't take much organising - you just need people on all the different levels of the church to be ready," said George Hintlian, who has 25 years' experience of representing the Armenian Orthodox in disputes arising over management of the holy places.

"I'm seriously worried that someone - perhaps an old person - will be killed if there is fighting."

Noisy and violent disputes in the church, which is shared by six Christian sects, are nothing new. Flare-ups over the positioning of candlesticks and mats, over the cleaning of a step, the length of a service or even the repair of a manhole cover pepper the church's long history.

Pope Gregory IX banned Roman Catholics from participating in the ceremony in 1238. The Greek patriarchate's website continues to advertise a miracle with a bold description - "a wheeze is heard and almost simultaneously blue and white lights penetrate from everywhere, as though millions of photographic flashes turn on".


19 posted on 04/11/2004 8:34:44 PM PDT by Polycarp IV (PRO-LIFE orthodox Catholic--without exception, without compromise, without apology. Any questions?)
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To: Polycarp IV
The problem with the Armenian fella's theory (all it is, the Armenian is not awitness to this) is that the area is so crowded and so many bodies pushing against each other that there can be no way the patriarch in a sealed room can smuggle in a flame without his robes catching fire or smothering the flame. I think he also is searched by the authorities - a tradition.
20 posted on 04/11/2004 9:13:15 PM PDT by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting www.johnathangaltfilms.com)
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