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To: nobdysfool; P-Marlowe
Can you truly say that if one is powerless, that they are therefore without knowledge?

That is exactly my concern. You see the logic of what I am worried about. Just because one is powerless does not mean that they are without knowledge.

The following 3 excerpts from Boettner do not seem to agree with either of us.

Scripture teaches very explicitly that God acts according to a plan And, knowing that plan, he knows the future.

His decrees therefore are eternal, unchangeable, holy, wise, and sovereign. They are represented as being the basis of the divine foreknowledge (q.v.) of all future events, and not conditioned by that knowledge or by anything originated by the events themselves.

...our fore knowledge does not precede determination, but follows it and is based upon it. God foreknows the future because he has foreordained the future. (Boettner, Wycliffe, "Predestination.")

This says three things: (1) that the decrees are THE BASIS of the divine foreknowledge. (2) It says that God has a plan, and that His knowledge of the plan leads to his knowing the future. (3) This says that God know the future BECAUSE he has foreordained the future.

Divine foreknowledge is based on Decrees.

Divine foreknowledge is based on God's knowledge of His Plan.

Divine foreknowledge is based on God's foreordinaton of the future.

Use those 3 points as the factual information on which you MUST BASE the answer to your question above: "Can you truly say that if GOD is powerless, that GOD IS therefore without knowledge?"

Using the facts presented by Boettner, I MUST conclude that if God were powerless that God could not have knowledge of the Future.

35 posted on 06/06/2004 11:31:24 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Proud of It!)
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To: xzins; drstevej; Alex Murphy; Dr. Eckleburg; P-Marlowe; Jean Chauvin; ksen; thePilgrim
That is exactly my concern. You see the logic of what I am worried about. Just because one is powerless does not mean that they are without knowledge.

I don't understand why this worries you so, unless you are starting to see that Calvinists are right, and God HAS foreordained all that comes to pass.

The following 3 excerpts from Boettner do not seem to agree with either of us.

Scripture teaches very explicitly that God acts according to a plan And, knowing that plan, he knows the future.

The only issue I would take with this statement is the reference to a Plan as though it were something separate from God Himself. The Plan does not inform Him of the future, as though He had to consult it to know, the Plan exists within His Mind, and is integral to His Being. His Knowing of the Future (for us) is as detailed and precise as His knowledge of our present and past, and the past present and future of all creation and everything and eveyone in it. In short, there is no part of it hidden to Him, because He has decreed that all be as it is and shall be.

His decrees therefore are eternal, unchangeable, holy, wise, and sovereign. They are represented as being the basis of the divine foreknowledge (q.v.) of all future events, and not conditioned by that knowledge or by anything originated by the events themselves.

In essence, Boettner is saying (and I agree) that God's knowledge of future events is not based on having looked to see how it COULD or WOULD be, but based on the fact that He has decreed how it WILL be. Because He knows what He decrees, He knows the result of those decrees, because whatever he decrees comes to pass, exactly and specifically as He has decreed it. He does not need to look to know it, He knows it because He decreed it.

...our fore knowledge does not precede determination, but follows it and is based upon it. God foreknows the future because he has foreordained the future. (Boettner, Wycliffe, "Predestination.")

This is just another way of saying that he knows the future because He has decreed it to be so, and His decrees are never wrong, and never fail. This obliquely refers to His Omnipotence, but it is with reference to the surety and certainty of that which He decrees. Determination, I believe, refers to His absolute power to call those things that be not as though they are, and to know with certainty that they are exactly and specifically as they are decreed to be. Again referring to His Omniscience and Omnipotence.

Using the facts presented by Boettner, I MUST conclude that if God were powerless that God could not have knowledge of the Future.

And conversely, it follows that if God is ALL-Powerful (Omnipotent), then God has perfect and complete knowledge of the Future (Omniscience).

So, it seems we have refuted Open Theism, and also laid an axe to the root of Arminian theology.

37 posted on 06/06/2004 12:51:45 PM PDT by nobdysfool (Faith in Christ is the evidence of God's choosing, not the cause of it.)
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