Posted on 11/15/2004 9:09:07 AM PST by Dems_R_Losers
OK, I have had it with the ECUSA. It was the church that brought me to Christ, but now I believe it has abandoned Christ. I have moved away from my original parish anyway.
I do not wish to be a Catholic or Orthodox Christian. I need to find a church that allows the involvement of women in the priesthood and deaconate, but not practicing homosexuals. One that frowns on divorce and supports the pro-life movement. I like to dance and drink, so Southern Baptist is out. I'm not a pacifist so I cannot be a Quaker. Your advice is appreciated!
Check out the Reformed Episcopal Church ... if you can tolerate the older prayer book language.
I'm a Catholic, but for my money, you just can't go wrong with The Snake Handlers.
" WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
DIVERSITY IS STRENGTH"
Let me add my vote to yours. If I were to change denominations, I would definitely check to make sure that rattlesnakes were involved. I like to get a good bang for my buck.
Why do you need to find a church, if you already have your convictions?
Good Luck and blessings to you on your quest....
I don't think you will find any church that will fit your views. Your "theology" is a ill fitting jigsaw puzzle.
Don't discount Southern Baptists so quickly. It's drinking to excess (drunkenness) that is frowned upon, and our youth group has dances, as well as performs choreographed events in church services. I think your information may be a little outdated.
They do not permit priestesses.
Foursquare or Assembly of God. They are both fairly conservative bible wise except they allow women ministers. The AOG is pentecostal, but very from congregation to congregation in wierdness. The Foursquare are much less pentecostal, but still belive in "sign" gifts.
Ahem,
Homosexual "marriage" and abortion are not the problem, rather they are the fruits of an apostasy that were planted long ago. When scripture was declared flawed, when sections were dismissed outright, the downward spiral began.
IMHO it is far more important to search out a Church that clings to worshiping God and sees his word as inspired and inerrant rather than shopping from a doctrine of social works.
As far as women elders and ministers/pastors goes, isn't it interesting that every denomination which allows women to serve in those roles is being ripped apart by the homosexual and abortion issue. Just something to think about.
Evangelical Presbyterian might work for you. Check them out. http://www.epc.org/ If you shop carefully, you might even be able to find a PCUSA congregation where you feel comfortable, but you will have the same issues at the denominational level that you see in the Episcopal Church. Same with United Methodist. Christian Reformed just started ordaining women, and they haven't gotten to gay ordination yet, so they would be another possibility.
I had forgotten that the REC won't ordain women. The Charismatic Episcopal Church might, but I'm not certain of that. My own denomination -- The United Methodist Church -- ordained women (we have since the 1950s, and ordained our first woman Bishop in 1980). Contrary to some regrettable instances, the UMC doesn't allow the ordination of Self-Avowed Practicing Homosexuals, so you won't have to worry about an out-Bishop. When an Elder or Deacon comes out of the closet, and the Church courts work properly (as is the case 95% of the time ... you just don't hear about those cases because they don't make news), they are defrocked.
As for abortion, the UMC has been moving more and more toward a more conservative position; back in 1980 we affirmed that we were a pro-choice church, but since the late 1990s (and certainly since 2000) we have asserted that we totally reject partial birth abortion, and have also asserted that we oppose any abortion for birth control, gender selection, or economic convenience. Sadly, we are still, officially, pro-choice, but it's far more limited now, and I look for it to continue to be more and more limited in the future. Perhaps I'm optimistic, but I pray that within the next two General Conferences (either in 2008 or in 2012) we finally cut the last vestiges of financial support for pro-abortion organizations and will, without question, fully affirm a pro-life position.
The UMC has appreciation for the Sacramental life that is part of the Episcopalian tradition (not surprising, since we share the same roots), and -- depending upon the congregation -- you'll find liturgical forms of worship, as well as the more popular (current and trendy) Praise and Worship forms. There's a great amount of diversity when it comes to worship styles in the UMC, and one congregation can differ from another by a rather significant degree. This is true in terms of theological and social positions as well; the church which I pastor is a very conservative UMC, both socially and in terms of theology, while also being traditional and somewhat liturgical in worship forms -- we celebrate the Eucharist every Sunday in at least one worship service (in the morning on 1st and 3rd Sundays, and in the Evening on 2nd and 4th Sundays). I was appointed here because I'm known as a theological "traditionalist" (i.e., Wesleyan-Arminian Anglo-Catholic-Protestant)
"As far as women elders and ministers/pastors goes, isn't it interesting that every denomination which allows women to serve in those roles is being ripped apart by the homosexual and abortion issue. Just something to think about."
Feel compelled to chime in on this one...especially since I am both an erstwhile feminist female and former ECUSA. It is my considered opinion that ordination of female priests opened the door to the wholesale takeover of ECUSA by radical homosexuals, New Agers, & just plain old heretics bent on destroying the church. You know, history tends to repeat itself. The first and most ardent warriors for Black civil rights were the Suffragists and, later, the Women's Libbers - and not for purely atruistic reasons. These women actually believed that women's rights would ride on the coattails of the abolishonist and civil rights movements. Their error was in believing that if they supported the rights of Black people, Black people would, in turn, support them & their demands. That, of course, didn't happen & feminists felt betrayed. It's a history lesson that is oft repeated in feminist circles with the implication that "when we get ours, we won't forget the people who helped us get it." When these feminists "got theirs" in the form of women's ordination, it was the homosexual male priests, bishops, & closeted homos in the laity who made it happen. It's payback time. Now it is these same feminist priests (and homo clergy) who've orchestrated the greatest & most widespread heresy ever to infest the Christian faith.
I, also, urge Dems_R_Losers to re-consider his/her "litmus test" for finding a new church home. Traditional (aka "continuing")Anglican churches, of which there are many, encourage women's involvement in the church everywhere EXCEPT ordination to the priesthood or episcopate. If women's ordination is a dealbreaking issue for Dems_R_Losers, I can only conclude that he/she is not now (and probably never was) an Anglican. In that case, a nice Baptist church would do fine. Better to be a good Baptist than a half-baked Anglican.
Try the American Baptists. They allow for the ordination of women, but oppose homosexuality.
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