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To: winstonchurchill
What is my answer ?

First let me quote from R.A. Torrey because he says so beautifully what I believe: "to pray the prayer of faith we must first of all study our Bibles intensely that we may know the promises of God, what they are, how large they are, how definite they are, and just exactly what is promised. In addition to that we must live so near to God, be so fully surrendered to the will of God, have such a delight in God and so feel our utter dependence upon the Spirit of God, that the Holy Spirit Himself can guide us in our prayers and indicate clearly to us what the will of God is, and make us sure while we pray that we have asked for something that is according to God's will, and thus enable us to pray with the absolute confidence that God has heard our prayer, and that "we have received" the things that we asked of Him."

I think that my will must conform to His, that I must trust in His promises, that I must believe that He is good and means good for me, then my prayers will prepare me for whatever comes my way.

PS, being created in God's image does not make one frozen, but rather passionate 8)

14 posted on 02/08/2005 4:41:04 PM PST by suzyjaruki (No pain, no gain - on the road to spiritual maturity)
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To: suzyjaruki
What is my answer ? First let me quote from R.A. Torrey .... I think that my will must conform to His, that I must trust in His promises, that I must believe that He is good and means good for me, then my prayers will prepare me for whatever comes my way.

Your short answer: God changes your mind, but never ever changes His own. Right?

Now I realize the determinist model precludes one from understanding that God changes His mind (although Scripture clearly says He does). But what does that position leave for petitionary prayer? Apart from the meeting of some ceremonial requirement (i.e. one doing something meaningless because one feels one is instructed to perform such a meaningless act), what purpose is served in asking for anything (particularly for others) in sincere prayer to God?

Isn't it true that the determinist model leaves no real expectation of an answer to petitionary prayer for others? Again, then, apart from the meeting of a ceremonial requirement (defined above), why would any good determinist pray for others?

One doesn't need a fog of purple prose from Torrey or anyone else. What possible purpose is served? If none, why would the apostles suggest it?

15 posted on 02/08/2005 7:13:12 PM PST by winstonchurchill
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To: suzyjaruki
PS, being created in God's image does not make one frozen, but rather passionate 8)

We are all created in the image of God and, I suppose, that all humans are 'passionate' to some degree about something.

Obviously, the "frozen chosen" reference is the traditional reference to those determinists convinced that they are unalterably destined for Heaven no matter what they do or think in response to Christ and that others, far less fortunate than they, are similarly unalterably destined for Hell no matter what they do or think in response to Christ. Those fortunate, self-designated "chosen" are, in that sense, "frozen" in status (according to their lights). Just a small attempt at humor.

16 posted on 02/08/2005 7:21:53 PM PST by winstonchurchill
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