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To: mike182d
on what logical grounds can you claim that Judas didn't believe in Christ, but Andrew, Matthew, or even Peter did?

I don't see any evidence in the Bible that Judas ever professed faith. You're the one saying he did, and basing it entirely on what you deem is "logical." Indeed, that's probably the same sort of logic that gives you a Mary who was immaculately conceived, perpetually sinless, perpetually virgin, and never experienced a bodily death.

59 posted on 03/23/2005 8:06:53 AM PST by newgeezer (Just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary.)
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To: newgeezer
Indeed, that's probably the same sort of logic that gives you a Mary who was immaculately conceived, perpetually sinless, perpetually virgin, and never experienced a bodily death.

Would you like to discuss the topic at hand or take cheap shots and try to divert the subject matter entirely?

In ancient Jewish tradition, it was a common practice for any Rabbi to have disciples. It would be this small group of men that would follow the Rabbi everywhere, learn from him, and then upon the Rabbi's death, it would be only these men that would have the authority to recount stories of the Rabbi and carry on his teachings. This is why Jesus chose the Apostles - not because it was something "new" to Judaism, but rather because it would be these men that would carry on his tradition and teachings- in accord with Jewish tradition.

Given that the role of an Apostle is to carry on the teachings of the Rabbi, and that one of the teachings of Jesus was the He was the Son of God, our sole hope of salvation, are you suggesting, then, that Jesus appointed someone who did not believe Christ's teachings to carry on these very same teachings?

You find throughout the New Testament Jesus calling the Pharisees "broods of vipers" and "hypocrites." Why? Because they were teaching and imposing upon the people something they did not believe or do themselves. In the same vain, if Judas was a nonbeliever, would it not be hypocritical of him to teach what he did not believe? Futhermore, would it not be hypocritical of Jesus to charge Pharisees of the very thing you are suggesting He did?

I would rather accept the logic of a Church that believes in the perpetual virginity of Mary than a logic that believes Christ is a hypocrite, but that its OK because He's God and can do whatever He wants.
70 posted on 03/23/2005 8:20:38 AM PST by mike182d ("Let fly the white flag of war." - Zapp Brannigan)
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