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To: kerryusama04
Doug, I'm not the one with the preconcieved bias here. The dude didn't die. Where else would he have gone?

He did die. Scripture expressly says that he died.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

And if he didn't die, where indeed could he have gone? Not to heaven. He didn't have his sins forgiven because Christ had not yet been sacrificed. And scripture doesn't say he went to heaven. Anywhere. Scripture says that he was taken by God. "The Lord took him" is still today a euphemism for death.

I suspect that this is one of the reasons that Catholicism came up with the concept of purgatory.

There are a couple of explanations that make sense. As pointed out, this could be the second death, yet to happen.

Another theory is that God took Enoch away so that he wouldn't see death from people who were trying to kill him because of his preaching:

The word "translated" in the Greek means "moved to another place." The same Greek word for "translated" here is used in Acts 7:16 as "carried over", referring to transferring Jacob's dead body to Sychem. Because Enoch's preaching was gaining opposition and he was likely to be killed in that age of violence, Genesis 6:11, God took him, and he was not to be found, Genesis 5:24. The Almighty took Enoch bodily to another place, exactly as described in Acts 7:16.

There are any number of explanations that can be postulated without resorting to a notion that just ONE or TWO people in the whole bible went to heaven at the exclusion of everyone else.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,

It's just another way of restating that there would be some Christians alive when Christ returns.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

32 posted on 02/21/2007 8:01:02 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC
We're caught in a loop. Why would Paul say "these all died", if everyone knew "these all died".

Hebrews 11:5 is pretty darn clear, man.

And if he didn't die, where indeed could he have gone? Not to heaven. He didn't have his sins forgiven because Christ had not yet been sacrificed. And scripture doesn't say he went to heaven. Anywhere. Scripture says that he was taken by God. "The Lord took him" is still today a euphemism for death.

Are you saying that the Creator of the Universe is bound by time - time that He created? Are you saying that Jesus didn't know what the future held, even though He invented the future? BTW, don't the folks who use that particular phrase believe in immortal souls?

There are any number of explanations that can be postulated without resorting to a notion that just ONE or TWO people in the whole bible went to heaven at the exclusion of everyone else.

One is that they are examples for how we should live in order to attain the same reward.

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

And again, you have made my point. The folks who perserve in the end times won't see death, either. Ever. They ain't gonna die. Enoch and Elijah are examples of things that will happen large scale.

34 posted on 02/21/2007 8:29:38 PM PST by kerryusama04 (Isa 8:20, Eze 22:26)
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