His statement is that they "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."
The fact that he mentioned that they all died is part of a larger thought.
Are you saying that the Creator of the Universe is bound by time - time that He created? Are you saying that Jesus didn't know what the future held, even though He invented the future? BTW, don't the folks who use that particular phrase believe in immortal souls?
If we don't "really" need the death and resurrection of Christ as an atonement then his incarnation must have been nothing more than a magic trick, a demonstration, a show. I don't believe that.
One is that they are examples for how we should live in order to attain the same reward.
There's not much examples from Enoch on how to live contained in scripture.
And again, you have made my point. The folks who perserve in the end times won't see death, either. Ever. They ain't gonna die. Enoch and Elijah are examples of things that will happen large scale.
We know that the bible speaks over and over about death being a sleep. That the dead know nothing. That there is nothing until the resurrection. Enoch and Elijah are one of the few scriptures that are misinterpreted in an attempt to overthrow this clear biblical teaching. I suspect that this was done in order to prove the doctrine of the immortal soul and also to justify the doctrine that Mary was assumed bodily into heaven.
The fact that he mentioned that they all died is part of a larger thought.
This is true, except for Enoch (and Elijah by omission). Verse 5 exists, as does its companion in Genesis. It wasn't until HWA that the status of Elijah or Enoch has ever been questioned. There are sufficient passages for me to take the Bible at what it says, the Enoch and Elijah did not die. Perhaps I am wrong, but I will take my faith from the Book over the doctrine of a man every day of the week.
If we don't "really" need the death and resurrection of Christ as an atonement then his incarnation must have been nothing more than a magic trick, a demonstration, a show. I don't believe that.
I really don't know where to begin here. Both Covenants were/are designed to draw men closer to God, through Jesus. Jesus' sacrifice was for known at the foundation of the world. Are you saying that those who believed prior to Jesus' coming down here believed in vain and have no hope of salvation? Good grief, man, Enoch and Elijah actually saw Jesus, they walked with Him, and he took them. Jesus and God do what they like. With God, all things are possible. Is that so hard to comprehend?
There's not much examples from Enoch on how to live contained in scripture.
We both know that Genesis is a very condensed book of the Bible, however, there is enough about Enoch to know that we ought to emulate him:
Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Do you try to walk with God? Have you done things in your life in order to try to adhere to God's Word spoken through the Bible? Do you try to please God in your daily walk? Do you keep the Sabbath? Have you removed the pagan holidays from your house? Do you post the most controversial articles available here on FR for all the world to see trying to spread truth? Don't these things fit the underlines verses above? I sure think so.
We know that the bible speaks over and over about death being a sleep. That the dead know nothing. That there is nothing until the resurrection. Enoch and Elijah are one of the few scriptures that are misinterpreted in an attempt to overthrow this clear biblical teaching. I suspect that this was done in order to prove the doctrine of the immortal soul and also to justify the doctrine that Mary was assumed bodily into heaven.
Those of us who believe that Enoch and Elijah did not die aren't the ones doing the interpreting, we're just reading. Sometimes we can run so wild with doctrine that we think God must do X or Y. I have a humble approach. I take stuff on faith and understand that even the Saints who wrote the Bible didn't know it all, so how can we possibly know it all? We will get our explanation at the Resurrection, but God certainly doesn't owe us one. He will explain it because of His Grace, not our worth.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
1Co 13:10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.
1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.
1Co 13:13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.