Posted on 04/10/2008 7:29:04 PM PDT by urabus
Epicenter Conference was held today in Jerusalem. Many speakers including author Joel Rosenberg, Skip Heitzig, Pastor David Ortiz, Pastor Chuck Smith, Porter Goss, Lt. Gen. William "Jerry" Boykin...
See website for details.
I know Skip Heitzig. He was my pastor when I lived in Albuquerque.
And from the web site: Celebrate the 60th anniversary of the prophetic rebirth of Israel
Hmmm, what date is Chuck using to predict Jesus’ "soon" return these days? Must be somewhat embarrassing to be 20 years beyond your last predicted date.
The "generation" is also ended, no? So much for the "prophetic rebirth" nonsense.
More from the web site: Receive up-to-the-minute briefings from top Middle East experts
Why do we need "up-to-the-minute briefings" if the Christian Zionists / futurists dispensationalists are only gong to change their tune and rewrite their books in another 5 years when political conditions change?
Study Bible prophecy with highly-respected evangelical leaders
And largely discredited in their interpretation of modern events wrt the Bible.
Learn what The Joshua Fund is doing to bring millions of dollars worth of humanitarian aid into Israel to bless victims of war and terrorism and to stockpile supplies for the next war. Learn how you can help.
Learn also how two thirds of "God’s chosen people" will be annihilated in the future great tribulation that is going to happen "real soon now". Learn how your dollars are being used to bring even more Jews into the Middle East as fodder for this devastating conflagration.
In just a few short weeks, millions of innocent Israeli, Lebanese and Palestinian families found their lives shattered. Homes were destroyed. Food, water, clothing and medicine are needed urgently. (Joel Rosenberg on the launch of The Joshua Fund in 2006)This is nothing compared to what they have to look forward to, according to pop prophecy gurus like Church Smith.
My take is that most of these guys don’t have a clue on Bible prophecy wrt Israel.
But in many scholar's views, certain conditions have already been met. Events are seen, by some, to transpire in such a way as to suggest that many prophecies in the Bible have come to pass, and many others will be borne out at some future date.
Is it a copout when it is suggested that the timeline can shift because of current events? I don't think so. But rather than taking a pessimistic view, I would only suggest you read Joel C. Rosenberg's book Epicenter - Why the Current Rumblings in the Middle East Will Change Your Future. It is a fascinating read.
Not for lack of trying. See Hal (Terminal Generation) Lindsey and Chuck Smith, e.g.:
"We’re the generation that saw the fig tree bud forth, as Israel became a nation again in 1948. As a rule, a generation in the Bible lasts 40 years. . . . Forty years after 1948 would bring us to 1988."But in many scholar's views, certain conditions have already been met. Events are seen, by some, to transpire in such a way as to suggest that many prophecies in the Bible have come to pass, and many others will be borne out at some future date." I'm convinced that the Lord is coming for His Church before the end of 1981." (Chuck Smith, Future Survival)
Like the claims of evolutionist, anything is possible given enough time and energy. That’s what makes the claims so unbelievable. Once the political landscape changes, they all-but-certain prophetic condition seems to fade away or morph into something new.
If the NT writers treated the OT prophecies in the same fashion as modern prophetic prognosticators treat them, I don’t think we would be sure of anything about Christ.
Is it a copout when it is suggested that the timeline can shift because of current events? I don't think so. But rather than taking a pessimistic view, I would only suggest you read Joel C. Rosenberg's book Epicenter - Why the Current Rumblings in the Middle East Will Change Your Future. It is a fascinating read.
Yep, it’s a copout. Especially from folks who pride themselves on being able to read and interpret the Bible "literally". If the Bible painted these alleged future events in the way many prophecy gurus would have us believe, the details would fall together like a perfect puzzle. There would be no need for book revisions and new lecture series/prophecy conferences. Most of these conferences are only to tell you how the experts have had to change their theories since the last conference.
There are many fascinating reads that are far from the truth. When your starting propositions are faulty it is most likely that the conclusions will be faulty as well.
Well, yeah I admit I didn't try to find those. Not like I didn't know that a few have made the concrete predictions like your examples show. Just that I also realize as you claim with your statement-"Yep, it’s a copout. ", that no one can know G-d's plans for the world with absolute certainty.
On the other hand, there is prophecy in the Bible wrt Jesus as Messiah. Granted, not all accepted Him as such. But that does not invalidate prophecy. BTW, Epicenter is still worth a look, regardless your views.
Well, yeah I admit I didn't try to find those.
Actually, I was speaking of the "date-suggesters" prophecy preachers. They were the ones falling all over themselves to see Jesus "soon return" prior to 1988 (1948 + 40 = 1988)
Just that I also realize as you claim with your statement-"Yep, it’s a copout. ", that no one can know G-d's plans for the world with absolute certainty.
Well, that’s a copout too of sorts. If you believe in a "literal" way of interpreting the Bible, esp. the prophecies, it should be a fairly straightforward task to apply them with some certainly to current events … that is if that was God’s intent.
After all, just read passages like Matthew 24:4-22 where Jesus gives very specific and detailed signs that folks were to look for in relationship to the destruction of the temple. And Jesus expected His hearers to act on these signs, e.g., "let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains", when they were recognized.
Very specific and very detailed.
Now if Jesus gave those people in that day very specific signs to watch for just prior to the destruction of the temple (which occurred in AD70, BTW), then you would think the same sort of detailed signs would jump off the pages of Scripture if they were supposed to be speaking about modern events.
But they don’t appear to do that. So either 1) folks aren’t doing a very good job of interpreting the passages and applying them to today, or 2) it was not God’s intent for these prophecies to apply to modern day events.
I vote for 2.
On the other hand, there is prophecy in the Bible wrt Jesus as Messiah. Granted, not all accepted Him as such. But that does not invalidate prophecy. BTW, Epicenter is still worth a look, regardless your views.
How so? Why should I spend money on something that, as its foundational thesis, promotes a view that is in many ways contrary to my view of the Bible and God’s plan for this earth? I do not for one second believe that prophecy revolves around modern Israel. I do not believe that modern Israel is the fulfillment of any Bible prophecy, or that the inhabitants of Israel are "God’s chosen people".
Perhaps you can share some insight from the book that will suggest it might be good reading for those like me who do not accept the Christian Zionist view of Israel.
Joel Rosenberg is the principal organizer of this 'conference'.:
"Joel is an evangelical Christian from an Orthodox Jewish heritage. His grandparents escaped Russian persecution of the Jews in the early part of the twentieth century. Joel graduated from Syracuse University in 1989 and studied at Tel Aviv University. He is married, has four sons, and lives near Washington, D.C., where he and his wife are members of McLean Bible Church."
Here is what I found interesting about his book:
"Epicenter is Joel's first nonfiction book, focusing on the rapidly rising Iranian nuclear threat, why Russia is selling arms and nuclear technology to Iran, why Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad believes it is the end of the world, and why Ahmadinejad is saying that the way to hasten the coming of the Islamic Messiah is to annihilate the United States and Israel. Using exclusive interviews with U.S., Israeli, Arab, and Russian leaders and previously classified documents from the White House, CIA, and State Department, Joel examines 10 future headlines that could come out of Russia and the Middle East, and does so in the light of Islamic, Jewish, and Christian eschatology (end-times theology). " -excerpts from http://www.joelrosenberg.com/about.asp
I checked it out from my local library. Didn't cost me a dime!
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