The ELCA has followed the lead of its "full communion partners" of the UCC and Episcopal church in allowing non chaste gay and lesbian clergy.
Posted on 08/21/2009 5:07:06 PM PDT by lightman
Thomas Martin-Erickson, SC Wi. Calls to the rostered ministry bring many challenges, not just Sunday morning. Craig Johnson, E NDak. I have no new information, and I’m not eloquent. But I do know something is terribly wrong, and it boils down to two issues: (1) the Bible tells me so, (2) need for leadership as example. In reality this decision is more of a social statement than any words we’ve approved. Pastors are our examples, they mold the faith of our children. When we meet in 2017, I hope we do not lament, “Where have all the Lutherans gone? Gone through conscience, every one.”
Bp. Gary Wollersheim, N IL. Every summer about 500 Lutheran kids come to Augustana College for a retreat, like a mini-national youth gathering. They teach Sunday School, serve on council, serve as assisting ministers. They come from cities and rural areas. We take questions during this even (“stump the bishops”). Every year the first question is “Do you believe the ELCA should ordain qualified people who are in same-gender relationships?” We, being bishops, turn it back to them: What do you think? Every year it is the same: about 99% of the youth think we should make this change.
Pr. Cary Larson, SE MN: I bring greetings from a young pastor in rural NE. She is a single woman, she desires to date, but in order to do so she feels she must compromise the promise she has made to the church. She finds this resolution offensive because it leaves her out. This church will change phenomenally if we approve this resolution; we will become a federation of synods, of loose congregations. What is public accountability? In the parishes I serve says you don’t let the cattle out of the barn until you have a fence around the pasture. Where is the fence?
Pr. Kay Richter, E Central Wi. I give thanks for all those standing in line who are faithfully studying their Bible. I am one of those who does this on a regular basis. According to Leviticus and Romans I am unworthy to serve; I wear clothing of two fabrics, I am disfigured by metal plates, and I continue to disobey my parents. My point is that there are many laws in Bible not contradicted by Jesus that we nonetheless ignore them.
Bp. Larry Wohlrabe, NW Mn. Because I live in the Red River Valley, I’m good at figuring out how the wind is blowing. I know how the wind is blowing here. We who haven’t sought these changes will need to live into God’s future along with you. Some will say these resolutions mark our maturity as a church, but I hope for more maturity. I hope we will some day arrive at a real Biblical consensus that we still lack. I pray one day the relationships that are being fractured in this process will one day be healed. I pine for the day when we are what we claim to be: so obsessed with God’s mission that we’ll avoid pursuing issues that distract us like this.
John Stendahl, New Engl. I came wanting to speak about the scriptures, that mystery, but what seems to be honored in scriptures by some seems to be seen in quite a different way others in this room. There isn’t time. It is so hard. I so much want to be understood, to stop insulting each other. I’ve felt insulted and hurt. I love the Bible, I love my church and my Lord. The possessions I have taken I believe to be true. Others on the other side have felt the same way. The conversation that should have taken place previously maybe now can take place in a new way.
Wayne Jacobson, NE IA. I’m not a complicated person, a pastor or theologian, but as a lifelong believer in Jesus Christ I’ve lived with this book (Bible). It is more than a book of faith, it is a book of life. Sometimes this book encourages me, challenges me, rebukes me, but it shapes and molds me. What we’ve done damages the witness to the truth of this Bible. Which part shouldn’t I believe? The grass withers, the flower fades, the word of the Lord endures forever. An assembly vote is not going to change that.
Robert Nicol, NE Penn. This week I passed a homeless person, and did nothing to help. Should I be excommunicated? You will say I am comparing apples and oranges, and you are right. Despising the poor should not be compared to living in a faithful relationship. I urge support of this change.
John Seng, NE OH. Key words “bound conscience.” Everyone here could talk for weeks, and no one’s opinion is going to be changed. Our culture is one that is taught to pick and choose. But we can have a uniform way of enforcing discipline. It’s clear that what is done is going to vary from bishop to bishop. I truly believe what we are about to do will split the church. I am against this, but I request that everyone get out a yardstick and see the impact.
Brittani Lamb, SW MN. I speak the voice of the youth. We’ve been taught all our life that God loves everyone. If someone has been called, it would not be loving to deny that person a life-long committed relationship. To say that God is love but not show that love to homosexual persons is hypocritical. Young people pick up quickly on hypocrisy.
Meredith Nelson, TX LA. Are we developing a double standard for clergy? Should not heterosexual pastors be allowed to be in a committed non-marriage relationship? Our clergy must be called to a higher standard.
Pr. Paul Tidemann, St. Paul. I speak to whether our church will decline because of this vote. I do not think it will. I serve a congregation more than 125 years old. When I came there, it was a small congregation. As we worked through the issue of welcoming LGBT people, the congregation began to grow. When we called Anita Hill as a pastor of our congregation, by a vote of 181 to nothing, our congregation grew over the next year by 100 members.
Pr. Henry Zorn, S. OH. I am so conflicted. Since 2001 I have been praying about this day, asking God to give me clarity. The only word form the Holy Spirit is there is no clarity. I hear compelling arguments on both sides. We need to listen to our global partners.
Jamie Hovland, SW Calif. When my son came out, I wanted to handle it well. I called Jim Boline and asked “How can I be the best possible mom to my son.” This pastor who had been shunned by the ELCA opened his arms to us and gave us great pastoral care. Jeremy is 26 now. I don’t know what we would have done without Pr. Boline’s ministry, but he, like so many others, is called to pastoral ministry.
Roger Thompson, SE MN. I am a Bible-believing Lutheran. It is much more than a book. The 10 commandments are the basis of our Bible. Where do we draw the line on bound conscience, or is there no line?
Previous question was moved again, and this time it prevailed: 763-236.
Resolution 2 was adopted 559-451 (55.35%).
After prayer, the assembly sang:
If you but trust in God to guide you with gentle hand through all your ways, you’ll find that God is there beside you when crosses come, in trying days. Trust then in God’s unchanging love; Build on the rock that will not move.
What gain is there in anxious weeping, In helpless anger and distress? If you are in your Savior’s keeping, In sorrow will he love you less? For Christ who took for you a cross Will bring you safe through every loss.
The Lord our restless hearts is holding, In peace and quietness content. We rest in God’s good will unfolding, What wisdom form on high has sent. God, who has chosen us by grace, Knows very well the fears we face.
Sing, pray, and keep God’s ways unswerving, Offer your service faithfully. Trust heaven’s word; though undeserving, You’ll find God’s promise true to be. This is our confidence indeed: God never fails in time of need.
The assembly then proceeded to discuss the long and complex Resolution 4. This resolution actually has seen “resolveds”:
RESOLVED, that Evangelical Lutheran Church in America call upon its members to commit themselves to respect the bound consciences of those with whom they disagree regarding decisions on the call and rostering of individuals in publicly accountable, lifelong, monogamous, same-gender relationships, in this church and with churches ecumenically and globally; and be it further
RESOLVED, that this church, because of its commitment to respect the bound consciences of all, declare its intent to allow structured flexibility in decision-making regarding the approving or disapproving in candidacy and the extending or not extending of a call to rostered service of a person who is otherwise qualified and who is living or contemplates living in a publicly accountable, lifelong, monogamous, same-gender relationship; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America make provision in its policies to eliminate the prohibition of rostered service by members who are in publicly accountable, lifelong, monogamous, same-gender relationships; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the appropriate churchwide unit(s) be directed to develop, in consultation with the Conference of Bishops, and the Church Council be directed to approve, appropriate guidelines for a process by which congregations, synods, and the churchwide organization could hold people publicly accountable in their relationships who are in or contemplate being in lifelong, monogamous, same-gender relationships and who seek to be on the rosters of this church; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Committee on Appeals be directed to develop, in consultation with the Conference of Bishops, and the Church Council be directed to approve, appropriate amendments to “Definition and Guidelines for Discipline” and the Vocation and Education program unit be directed to draft, in consultation with the Conference of Bishops, and the Church Council be directed to approve, appropriate amendments to the “Vision and Expectations” documents and the Candidacy Manual to accomplish the intent of this resolution; and be it further
RESOLVED, that additional policies be developed, as necessary, so that those whom this church holds responsible for making decisions about fitness for rostered ministry in general and for call to a particular specific ELCA ministry may discern, and have guidance in discerning, the fitness for ministry of a member living in a publicly accountable, lifelong, monogamous, same-gender relationship; and be it finally
RESOLVED, that this church continue to trust its established processes and those to whom it has given the responsibility to discern who should and should not be rostered or called to public ministry in this church.
The chair of the ad hoc committee noted that they had not recommended any of the proposed amendments, but that they had worked further with the proposer of one of the amendments, and the body might want to entertain the resulting language.
The ELCA has followed the lead of its "full communion partners" of the UCC and Episcopal church in allowing non chaste gay and lesbian clergy.
What are the chances they will do what the Episcopalians did and have a knock-down, drag-out schism?
Actually, the injunction is against "shamus" (I believe it's called) which is the UNLAWFUL mixing of linen with wool such that the purchaser is deceived into thinking he has bought a wool garment.
That is, the real injunction is against FRAUD.
Yet, isn't that what the ELCA is involved in here ~ fraudulently portraying the Scriptures that anyone can read into supporting something (homosexual behavior) that's clearly prohibited!
So the minister with the "two cloths" problem is probably onto something ~ but he really should check with a rabbi before trying to use that one to justify homosexuality.
Hey, ELCA people, you are doomed if you keep this hierarchy ~ doomed I say ~ what a trashy bunch they've become ~ sound like a bunch of hillbillies from Eastern Kentucky on Wednesday night shout and praise night, only not as educated or spiritually in tune!
* as of August 19, AD 2009, a liberal protestant SECT, not part of the holy, catholic and apostolic CHURCH.
Sin? Forgiveness? Repentance? Yeah, whatever.
Upon passage of the resolution, Bishop Hansen urged the singing of an “appropriate” hymn - he then scratched the word “appropriate.” The assembly sang “If Thou But Suffer God to Guide Thee,” making it sound as if God were the One who guided the voting which resulted in a resolution which went against His Word. God doesn’t speak out of both sides of His mouth, as does ELCA. Diversity rather than truth is the main doctrinal tenet of this “so-called” Christian denomination.
I frankly thought that a more appropriate “hymn” would have been “Deck the Halls” with its phrase “Don we now our gay apparel.” There was a lot of “Tra, la, la” methodology used by the supporters of the resolution, such as God condoning “same sex relationships” in His sending of the disciples out “two by two” on preaching assignments. Talk about stretching and misusing Scripture! If it weren’t a serious matter, it would be quite humorous.
Kyrie eleison! Christe eleison! Kyrie eleison!
BTW, I can pretty well track my own Scandinavian ancestors OUT of the ECLA (and its predecessors) into such delightful cults as Apostolic Charismatic Church of the First Born (and the Baptists as well). This sort of thing gives me an idea what they were leaving!
You are making me laugh, but thank goodness you didn’t propose having these guys sing “Jingle Bell Rock” ~ As Scandinavian as it is (COTFB relationships there) I don’t think Bobby Helms was high on the gay thing.
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