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To: daniel1212
As a result of His death and resurrection, and with the latter being the context here, Jesus functionally became a life-giving spirit, as by faith in Him believers have life, not only eternal life but regeneration of the Spirit, (Eph. 2:1,5) who was not poured out upon all believers (Acts 2:17,18) until Jesus resurrection, (Jn. 7:39; 14:26) for "God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him." (1Jn. 4:9)

Amen, and thanks for noting with great scriptural evidence the significance of the resurrection as support for the timing issue. His "becoming" is tied to His resurrection, NOT to His coming into existence. I really have to hand it to you for so many verse links. That's great. I don't know how you do it. :)

As far as being is concerned, as Jesus had to take on flesh, He essentially was/is spirit, as God the Father is, (Jn. 4:24) and after His resurrection appeared in a glorified, incorruptible physical body, not simply as a spirit, which could materialize at will yet eat food (Lk. 24:36-43) and which type of body believers will have, (1Cor. 15:49; 1Jn. 3:2) as "in Christ shall all be made alive" (1Cor. 15:22; and which is termed a spiritual body. (1Cor. 15:44,46)

Good point. There's another dagger in the "Paul thought Christ was created" argument. Paul obviously knew all the intricacies involved here. We learned many of them FROM him. :)

Also, thank you so much for the table on the uses of "ginomai". That's quite a list.

15,823 posted on 11/20/2010 1:05:42 PM PST by Forest Keeper ((It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.))
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To: Forest Keeper

“Amen, and thanks for noting with great scriptural evidence the significance of the resurrection as support for the timing issue.”

Thanks to God. The whole chapter is about resurrection, with that, or “risen” occurring at least 17 times, and is the continuing subject immediately before the text at issue. Moreover, to have Jesus being created as a spirit in v. 45 would be contrary to the order of v. 46, in which it is stated that that which is spiritual is not first, “but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual,” and which is contrary to what is stated concerning creation, as it is the invisible which gives birth to the visible. (Heb. 11:3)

In the subject of resurrection however, the incarnated Son of God became a life-giving spirit thru His death and resurrection, life giving because He makes the converted soul spiritually alive who was dead in sins and trespasses, so that the believer lives in the spirit, (Gal. 5:25) and spirit because that is essentially his nature, though not simply being a spirit but one with a “spiritual body,” which is what believer will have. How such can eat food and yet come through locked doors is beyond our knowledge, but that is what is revealed in the texts sited, and such is the nature of the spiritual world.

Rendering this as speaking about Jesus being created requires wresting the text out of its immediate context and supposing that Paul is introducing a novel doctrine which is contrary to what he and the other writers say on the issue. Such attempts typically evidence the extremes some will go to in seeking to construe contradictions out of texts which in reality are part of the complementary nature of Divine revelation.

“the table on the uses of “ginomai”. That’s quite a list.”

And in which makes it obvious that it is by no way restricted as referring to coming into existence. And that translation is no easy thing.


15,824 posted on 11/20/2010 4:56:16 PM PST by daniel1212 ( ("Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19))
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