Posted on 10/29/2010 9:25:35 AM PDT by dartuser
Not only are the Gentiles sons of Abraham by faith, but so are the Jews who believe God through faith. There is only ONE true Son and that is the Lord Jesus. Everyone else is adopted into God's kingdom.
I think we were talking about the Gentiles who believe and are sons of Abraham. Abraham believed God’s promise of the seed, which was the Lord Jesus, the only begotten Son, to come. But being sons of Abraham by faith does not make us literally and physically Israel,or take the place of believing Israel. My point was just to say it is a spiritual connection with (grafted in), not a physical replacement of, Israel.
Also, as adopted sons, we are heirs through God, and God predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself. We are sons of God. He is God, the Son, begotten not made, the Firstborn among many brethren.
so this guy , ccwoody and drstevej walk into a bar......
LOL,
And that's the point. Israel has always been spiritual-not physical. Sure there were blessings at time for the physical Israel, but the promises of the blessings of Abraham, the chosing of Jacob over Esau, the seed coming from David. etc., all has to do with the promise of God redeeming His spiritual kingdom. Abraham was grafted into the vine of Christ just as you and I are grafted in. The graphing in is just as much as for the believing Jews as it is for the believing Gentiles. It's just up until Pentacost that the promises for redemption laid with the Jews.
So, yes, being sons of Abraham by faith DOES make us literally Israel. God says this in several places:
Rom 9:6-8 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named." This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
Gal 6:15-16 For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
Eph 2:12-13 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
In response to your post...
You said, “Israel has always been spiritual—not physical.”
Absolutely not true.
The promises to Abraham were to his physical descendants through Isaac and Jacob, for a physical land and seed, yet there are future aspects regarding both that are yet to be fulfilled, and that have spiritual significance. God made Israel a nation at Mt. Sinai. The Gentiles (”goyim” in the Hebrew) are the nations, not Israel.
You are ignoring the literal facts. The land is the land physically described in the promises to Abraham. The seed is ultimately Jesus Christ. Abraham believed in the seed of Genesis 3:15, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. He believed God’s promises, and he died in faith without receiving the promises, but he saw them from a distance, in faith, and lived as a stranger on the earth because he was seeking a heavenly country. God literally chose Jacob over Esau, showing that the promises regarding Israel were to Jacob’s descendants, not Esau’s.
Jacob was a child of the promise, Esau was not.
Romans 9 is about God’s sovereignty and choice of Israel.
God chose Israel who has:
1. adoption as sons
2. the glory
3. the covenants
4. the Law
5. the temple service
6. the promises
7. the fathers
8. the Messiah.
The context: Jews are not believing & Gentiles are coming in great numbers.
Paul says, the question is then, has the word of God failed?
Paul’s answer: the word of God has not failed, v. 6
An explanation follows:
1. Because God has made a supernatural, sovereign choice—not by natural descent, v. 8, 10; not by works, v. 11
2. Because God’s purposes in it (His choice) will stand
3. God chooses without injustice, v. 14
4. He is not unjust. His choosing does not depend on man’s will or works, but on His mercy and purposes.
He uses 2 illustrations: Moses, who received mercy, v. 15, and Pharaoh, who received judgment, v. 17.
Romans 9, 10, and 11 show that God has not forgotten literal, physical Israel the nation, or their land—which is actually God’s land, His inheritance, which they have polluted time and time again. This is spoken of in Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel very plainly. So also are events that concern Israel AND the nations that have not happened yet,
for instance,
Jeremiah 3:15-18 speaks of a time when
- God will give Israel shepherds after His own heart, who will feed them on knowledge & understand, v. 15;
- they will be multiplied in their land, v. 16;
- they will no longer speak of the ark of the covenant of the LORD, nor remember it, nor miss it, nor will it be made again, v. 17;
- they will call Jerusalem “The Throne of the LORD,” and all the nations will be gathered to it, to Jerusalem, for the name of the LORD, v. 17;
- they will not walk anymore after the stubbornness of their evil heart, v. 17
- they will come united (houses of Judah & Israel) from the land of the north to the land that God gave their fathers as an inheritance, v. 18.
None of these promises have been fulfilled for the believing remnant of the nation Israel. They will be fulfilled in those days as described, thus will be the fulfillment of the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34) for the nation Israel (the believing remnant).
Israel is in their land now, surrounded by their enemies, among whom are literal descendants of Esau and Ishmael.
They are today living in their land in general unbelief—unbelief in Jesus as their Messiah—who came once and who is coming again.
Today, and since Pentecost, any Jew who trusts in the Lord Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of his sins and eternal life, receives salvation. [Romans 1:16, ...the gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also the Greek (translation of the same word for Gentile)].
But because God is not finished with Israel and the prophets still speak, Israel as a nation (the believing remnant) is yet to receive salvation under the New Covenant of Christ Jesus’ blood—the salvation that was promised in Jeremiah 31:31 and in Ezekiel, and in Isaiah.
Speaking of the root,
the root of Jesse, the Branch, the stem, are all terms that apply literally to the Messiah, who is Jesus. In Rev. 5:5 He calls Himself the Root of David.
Speaking of the nations:
Isaiah 2:2-4 speaks of a time in the last days when
- the mountain of the house of the LORD (Mt. Zion, Jerusalem) will be established as the chief of the mountains,
- all the nations will stream to it, v. 2
- many peoples will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob,
that He may teach us concerning His ways, that we may walk in His paths,” v. 3
- the law (or instruction) will go forth from Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem, v. 3
- He will judge between the nations, there will be no more war, v. 4
These things have not been fulfilled yet.
Revelation 21 & 22 - the new heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem, where there is no temple.
The nations [all are believers in Christ] are there.
God speaks in a plain normal sense. He is the One who gives ears to hear and eyes to see.
God does not contradict Himself in His word, the Old Testament and the New Testament.
This will be my last post, as I don’t have the time or the inclination to respond any further.
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