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DOCTRINE OF CHRISTIAN DEGENERACY II
Bible Study Notes, Self and from past Classes | 1989 | R. B. Thieme, Jr.

Posted on 11/15/2010 5:37:13 PM PST by Cvengr

G. Degeneracy and Blackout of the Soul.

1. Christian degeneracy is a state of ignorance as well as a state of experience or practice related to God relationship fragmentation and the blackout of the soul. Eph 4:18, "They have been darkened in their way of thinking, and they have been alienated from the life of God [the protocol plan] because of the ignorance which is in them, because of the scar tissue of their right lobes." Ignorance of the mystery doctrine of the Church Age is a major factor in combining with fragmentation and reversion to produce Christian degeneracy.

2. Once you reach blackout of the soul, everything you have learned is forgotten. The vacuum in the left lobe draws in so much false doctrine that it completely blots out anything you might have learned that would be helpful.

3. The displacement of the true ideas of doctrine with the false ideas of false doctrine is gradual. You become degenerate gradually.

4. Christian degeneracy and the blackout of the soul is tantamount to God relationship fragmentation. Christian degeneracy is alienation from the protocol plan of God.

H. Historical Degeneracy and Scar Tissue of the Soul.

1. Where you have scar tissue of the soul you have no frame of reference, no memory center, no vocabulary storage, no categorical storage, no conscience that lines up with the Word of God.

2. Blackout of the soul plus scar tissue of the soul equals locked in Christian degeneracy and/or reverse process reversionism.

3. Scar tissue of the soul effects the right lobe of the soul. For believers, scar tissue of the soul results in malfunction of problem solving devices.

4. The mandate regarding scar tissue of the soul is given in 1Jn 2:15. "Stop loving the cosmic system, or anything that is in the cosmic system. If anyone keeps loving the cosmic system, the love for the Father is not in him."

5. The divine mandate of scar tissue of the soul as the enemy of evangelism is found in Jn 12:40. "He [Satan] has blinded their eyes [blackout of the soul]; he has hardened their right lobes [scar tissue of the soul], lest they should see with their eyes and perceive by means of the right lobe and receive conversion and I restore them."

6. In 2 Pet 2:22, the unbeliever inside the cosmic system hears the gospel, shows momentary interest, and then rejects it. He is compared to the dog returning to his own vomit.

7. Scar tissue of the soul has eternal repercussions for the unbeliever. Rom 2:5, "But because of your hardness and unrepentant right lobe, you store up and accumulate wrath, even the manifestation of the just judgment of God." Unbelievers have the wrath of God stored up in their subconscious mind.

8. The mechanics of scar tissue of the soul related to the unbeliever is described in 2 Thes 2:10-12. "And with every deception of evil for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, so as to be saved. And for this reason, God sends them a deluding influence so that they might believe the lie, in order that they all might be condemned in judgment who do not believe the truth, but take pleasure in wrongdoing." The deluding influence came from their own bad decisions from a position of weakness.

9. The first generation of Jews developed scar tissue of the soul, Ps 95:8, "Do not harden your hearts as at Meribah."

a. The Meribah Revolution was a result of a maximum number of Jewish believers in the Exodus generation falling into reversionism. Therefore, their function of the faith-rest drill was superseded by scar tissue of the soul.

b. At Meribah, scar tissue of the soul expressed itself in Ex 17:3. "But the people thirsted there [Meribah] for water, and complained against Moses and said, `Why have you brought us up from Egypt to kill us and our children and our livestock with thirst?'" These people were irrational because of their degeneracy.

c. The provision of water was a matter of logistical grace, and it would be provided to them as losers involved in scar tissue of the soul.

10. There are two great historical examples of scar tissue of the soul.

a. Rom 9:17, "For the Scripture [Ex 9:16] says to Pharaoh, `I have caused you to continue in history in order that I might demonstrate My power by means of you, and that My person might be proclaimed throughout the entire earth.'"

(1) Ex 9:12-16 is the background for this quotation. Ex 9:12, "And the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not listen to them [Moses and Aaron], just as the Lord had predicted to Moses. . . I have established you that I might demonstrate My power by means of you, and that My person may be proclaimed throughout the entire earth."

(2) In each of the first five plagues, Scripture says that Pharaoh hardened his own heart, Ex 7:13. But in the last five plagues, God hardened Pharaoh's heart. This means that the Lord permitted him to stay alive even though he should have died by now through divine discipline. Pharaoh broke the world record for negative volition. God permitted him to say "No!" five more times: Ex 9:12; 10:1,20,27; 11:10; 14:8.

(3) God used to scar tissue of Pharaoh's soul to demonstrate His power and to evangelize the world. God did not coerce him to say "No."

(4) Human resistance to God's plan and will always reveals the power of God. When great human resistance exists, it is always followed by worldwide evangelism. Rom 1:20.

(5) Why did God preserve the life of Pharaoh? To demonstrate that divine power is infinitely greater than any human power. Pharaoh had great human power, which he distorted.

(a) All the power of the world was used to hinder the formation of the first client nation to God. Yet God's power was greater. There is no system of degeneracy that can ever hinder God's plan. The negative volition of Pharaoh only advanced the plan of God.

(b) The more Pharaoh used his power to resist the will of God, the greater the demonstration of divine power to overcome the world record in scar tissue of the soul.

(c) After each plague, when Pharaoh reneged and violated his own integrity, he was demonstrating the phenomenal power and motivation of degeneracy.

(d) God kept Pharaoh alive to demonstrate His power. The extension of Pharaoh's life by divine decree is expressed in the principle, "The Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart."

(e) In breaking the record for scar tissue of the soul, Pharaoh provided the means for the evangelization of his own empire and the entire world. Even forty-five years later, Rahab the ex-prostitute testifies that she was saved through the hardness of Pharaoh's heart, Josh 2:10-11.

(f) The greater the expression of Pharaoh's scar tissue, arrogance, and degeneracy, the greater the expression of God's power.

(6) Pharaoh had many opportunities to reverse his negative volition: Ex 7:22; 8:15,32; 9:34-35; 10:16-17. Every message of truth and demonstration of divine power was unimpressive to Pharaoh because of scar tissue of the soul and only intensified his negative volition.

(7) Scar tissue of the soul says "No" to God, and every time it does, it strengthens the scar tissue until you have reverse process reversionism and you cannot change your own mind. The only thing that can break through scar tissue is the gospel.

(8) In historic fragmentation both trends of the sin nature are functioning so that there is both great antinomianism and great legalism. Pharaoh was in historical degeneracy. Other examples: Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Philip II of Spain.

(9) Even after God hardened Pharaoh's heart, he could still have been saved, Ex 9:27. He recognized his status quo of evil, but would not believe in Christ. No one is saved by admitting they have sinned. Ex 10:17-18.

(10) Ps 76:10 was not only fulfilled then, but is fulfilled in every generation. God uses the wrath of man to praise Him. 1 Jn 4:4, "Greater is He who is in you, than he who is in the world."

(11) God did not create evil in Pharaoh. Pharaoh's volition created his own degeneracy. From his own free will, he became what he was. God used Pharaoh's self-made scar tissue of the soul and degeneracy to fulfill His will plan and purpose.

(12) The divine plan in the hardening of Pharaoh's heart was threefold.

(a) Liberation of the Jews from slavery to form the first client nation.

(b) The evangelization of Egypt, Ex 7:3-5.

(c) The evangelization of the world, Ex 9:16 cf. Rom 9:17. Paul quotes this to prove that the Jews living during the first advent and the first generation of Jews in the Church Age had broken Pharaoh's record of scar tissue of the soul.

(13) Pharaoh demonstrated that the distorted power of historical degeneracy can never compete with divine power.

b. The Jews during the Incarnation of our Lord broke Pharaoh's record for scar tissue of the soul!

(1) Rev 1:8, "`I am Alpha and Omega' says the Lord the God, `who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.'"

(a) Alpha refers to Jesus Christ as eternal God. The deity of Christ is His Alpha glory.

(b) Omega refers to Jesus Christ as the God-man in hypostatic union. The Omega glory of Christ is His uniqueness as the God-man, His saving work on the cross, and award of His third royal patent.

(c) "I am the Alpha and Omega" is God's statement to John that He was the God of the Jews. This is the stumbling stone over which the Jews stumble.

(2) Deut 6:4-6. "Hear, O Israel, Jesus Christ is our God [Alpha glory]; Jesus Christ is unique [Omega glory]." This was the statement of the hypostatic union in the Old Testament. "And you shall love the Lord your God with all your right lobe, and with all your soul and with all your power. And these doctrines which I am commanding you today shall be in your right lobe."

(a) As the God-man in His Omega glory, Jesus Christ controls history. Historical blessing or disaster depends on historical trends, which is determined by attitude toward doctrine.

(b) A reverse pivot of negative believers means a maximum number of believers involved in degeneracy and reversionism. When this occurs you always have a holocaust. Scar tissue of the soul results in holocaust. These tragedies come from human self-determination on the victim's part.

(3) The Jews accept the Alpha glory of Jesus Christ. They believe there is a God of Israel. But they have rejected the Omega glory of our Lord. They reject the God-man Jesus Christ as the Savior of Israel. They accept the Alpha glory in their left lobe, but reject the Omega glory in their right lobe.

(4) So the world record for negative volition toward the gospel and Jesus Christ resulting in maximum scar tissue of the soul is the Jewish race during the first advent of Christ. This was a combination of historical and religious scar tissue of the soul.

(5) Paul testified to this problem with the Jews in Rom 9:1-6. "I am communicating doctrine -- I am not lying, my conscience bearing joint testimony with me in the Holy Spirit -- that I have a great sorrow and constant pain in my right lobe. For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to earthly decent, who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons and the Shekinah glory and the covenants and the gift of the Law and the worship and the promises, from whom are the fathers [Abraham, Isaac, Jacob], in fact from whom is the Christ [Omega glory], the one who came in the flesh, ruler over all, eulogized forever. Amen. However, this is not to imply that the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel." Being a racial Jew does not make one true Israel. For Israel was founded on regeneration, not just a new racial species.

(6) Rom 11:7-12, "Therefore to what conclusion are we forced? What Israel is constantly seeking [salvation], it did not obtain, but the elect [Jews] have obtained it, and the rest were hardened; just as it stands written, `The God gave them a spirit of stupor [blackout of the soul plus scar tissue of the soul], eyes to see not and ears to hear not, down to this very day.' Also David says [Ps 69:22-23], `Let their table [doctrine - spiritual food] become a snare and a trap, and a stumbling block, and so for a retribution [holocaust] to them. Let their eyes be darkened to see not, and bend their backs forever.' I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? Definitely not! But by their apostasy [religious degeneracy] the salvation message belongs to the Gentiles, in order that they may be stimulated to emulation. Now if their apostasy became the riches of the world and if their failure became the riches of the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment [restoration at Second Advent] be!"

(a) No one will ever break this record of scar tissue of the soul by the Jews.

(b) Negative volition continually stumbles over the rock, Jesus Christ.

(c) The Jews are in slavery to this principle because of their own negative volition. They "bend their backs forever" as unbelievers in the Lake of Fire. During history they will always suffer as long as they are negative to the gospel.

(7) Why holocausts?

(a) There have been many holocausts against the Jews, at least one each century. It happens all the time because of their blackout and scar tissue of the soul.

(b) The trend toward religious legalism often leads to religious degeneracy. The trend toward antinomianism often leads to historical degeneracy. Historical degeneracy always persecutes religious degeneracy, except where religious degeneracy possesses political or historical power as the Roman Catholic Church in the Middle Ages.

(c) Every time there is a combination of religious degeneracy among the Jews (rejection of Christ) and historical degeneracy in a powerful nation, a holocaust occurs. When enough Jews are in religious degeneracy, and there exists a power on the earth that is in historical degeneracy abusing their power, there will be persecution of the Jews.

(d) During the Church Age, religious degeneracy among the Jews is persecuted by historical degeneracy among the Gentiles. The Jews provide the religious degeneracy. Someone in power provides the historical degeneracy. The two combine to produce a holocaust. Scar tissue with power persecutes scar tissue without power every time.

(e) There are also Gentile holocausts; e.g., what happened to the Russian and Chinese people under communism, and to religious groups who opposed the Roman Catholic Church before the Reformation.

(f) The removal of the Jews becomes the riches of the Gentiles because the Gentiles are now equal with the Jew because they are in union with Christ.

(8) Isaiah predicted the Jewish rejection of Christ during the First Advent. Isa 29:9-14, "Be shocked and amazed. Blind yourselves and be blind. They are drunk, but not with wine; they stagger, but not from strong drink. For the Lord has poured over you a spirit of deep sleep [blackout of the soul plus scar tissue of the soul resulting in reverse process reversionism]; regarding the prophets, He has shut your eyes; and regarding the seers, He has covered your heads. Therefore the entire vision [First Advent] shall be to you like the words of a sealed book, which when they give it to the one who is literate, saying, `Please read this,' he will reply, `I cannot understand it.' Then the book will be given to someone who is illiterate, saying, `Please read this.' But he will reply, `I can't understand it.' Then the Lord said, `Because this people draw near with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but they remove their hearts far from Me, furthermore their respect for Me is the commandments learned by memorizing, therefore behold, I will once again deal marvelously with this people, doing a magnificent thing [restoration of Israel and fulfillment of unconditional covenants]; and in the meantime the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the intelligence of their intellectuals will vanish."

(9) See the Doctrine of the Holocaust.

I. Antinomianism or Immoral Degeneracy.

1. Antinomianism or polarized fragmentation toward lascivious lawlessness is characterized by three categories:

a. Pre-degeneracy sexual sinfulness.

b. Pre-degeneracy chemical sinfulness.

c. Pre-degeneracy criminal sinfulness.

2. Sexual fragmentation in explosion, 2 Pet 2:13-14, 18, "Suffering wrong as the wages of doing wrong, they count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are stains and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions. And they carouse, having eyes full of adultery, they never cease from sin; enticing unstable souls, having their right lobe trained in lust, accursed individuals. ...For speaking out arrogant words from the vacuum of their souls, they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error."

a. This describes believers. It describes polarized antinomianism moving into reversion and becoming involved in immoral degeneracy.

b. If unchecked by rebound, the polarized trend of antinomianism becomes sexual reversionism or immoral degeneracy.

3. Immoral degeneracy is related to polarized fragmentation, Eph 4:19a, "who because they have become calloused, they have given themselves over to licentiousness..."

a. Believers in immoral degeneracy make all the decisions to get there. Yet, believers in immoral degeneracy are always trying to blame someone else, saying it is someone else's fault. When you blame others, this guarantees no recovery.

b. Licentiousness means unrestrained sex. Debauchery means excessive indulgence in unrestrained sex and sensual pleasure. Licentiousness is only a part of debauchery. Debauchery includes not only unrestrained sex but also unrestrained drunkenness and drug abuse.

c. There are three categories of sexual immorality.

(1) Normal sexual sinfulness.

(a) Mental and overt fornication - voluntary sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other.

(b) Mental and overt adultery - voluntary sexual intercourse of a married person with someone other than his spouse. Ex 20:14; Deut 5:18; Acts 15:20; 1Cor 6:18; Col 3:5; 1Thes 4:3.

(c) Promiscuity - frequent and indiscriminate changes of one's sexual partner.

(2) Abnormal sexual sins.

(a) Incest - parent and child having sex. Lev 18:6f, 20:14; Deut 27:20; 1 Cor 5:1-7.

(b) Homosexuality - sex between two persons of the same sex. Lev 18:22, 20:13; Rom 1:26f.

(c) Bestiality - sex between a human being and an animal. Lev 18:23, 20:15; Deut 27:21.

(d) Necrophilia - sex with a corpse.

(e) Voyeurism - a person who compulsively engages in the practice of obtaining sexual gratification by watching others engage in sexual intercourse.

(3) Criminal sexual sins.

(a) Rape - any act of sex that is forced upon a person.

(b) Pederasty - sexual intercourse between two males when one is a minor and the other is an adult.

(c) Pimping - a man who solicits customers for a prostitute.

(d) Prostitution - a man or woman who engages in sex for money.

(e) Mutilation.

4. Immoral degeneracy is related to reverse process reversionism, Eph 4:19b, "who have given themselves over to licentiousness resulting in the practice of every kind of immorality with insatiable lust."

a. Believers in every generation have been involved in immoral sins.

b. Don't judge your partner who is in immoral degeneracy. You fragment your own life and get into moral degeneracy which is twice as wrong. Moral degeneracy doesn't want to recover when it reacts to unfaithfulness in a marriage partner.

c. Don't be bitter, jealous, vindictive, hateful when your husband or wife runs off with someone else. But when you stick your nose into it and judge or criticize, then you get the discipline.

d. You want to blame your partner but never look at yourself as the cause of the problem.

e. Immoral degeneracy is related to "insatiable lust" in three categories:

(1) Lust for power and approbation.

(2) Lust for sex.

(3) Lust for money, wealth, and success.

5. Eph 4:19 is where inordinate ambition ties into immoral degeneracy. Scar tissue of the soul is the motivation for and function of immoral degeneracy. "Who because they have become calloused, they have given themselves over to licentiousness, resulting in the practice of every kind of immorality with insatiable lust."

6. Rom 13:13, "Let us walk properly as in the day, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and sensuality, not in strife and jealousy." Notice that sexual sins eventuate in strife and jealousy.

7. The second category under antinomianism is chemical fragmentation, which becomes chemical reversionism and immoral degeneracy. There are two categories of chemical sinfulness and fragmentation.

a. Drunkenness. Drinking is not a sin; being drunk is a sin.

(1) Eph 5:18, "Be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess."

(2) 1 Cor 5:11, "But actually I wrote you not to associate with any so-called brother if he should be a fornicator, or greedy, or an idolater, or a slanderer, or a drunkard, or a swindler - not even to eat with him."

(3) 1 Cor 6:9-11, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous [unbeliever] shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the [unbeliever] fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor transvestite, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor slanderers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God." You cannot be one of these and be able to witness effectively for Christ. "And such were some of you; but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified by the person of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by the Spirit of God." You can't witness if you've gone back to the old ways.

(4) 1 Cor 11:20, "Therefore when you meet together, it is not to eat the Lord's Supper, for in eating each one takes his own supper first; and one is hungry and another is drunk."

b. Drug addiction. The Greek word PHARMAKEIA means drug addiction. It is found in Gal 5:20 and Rev 21:8. Unbeliever drug addicts will be in the lake of fire. Rev 9:21, "And they [unbelievers] did not change their minds [about Christ] away from their murders, their drug addictions, their sexual immorality, nor their stealings."

8. Criminal fragmentation in explosion becomes criminal reversionism and immoral degeneracy.

a. Eph 4:28, "He [believer] who stole up to now, from now on stop stealing, but rather work hard, working with your hands doing what is right, that you may have money to share with him who has a need."

b. Categories of criminality that believers have been involved in include: murder, rape, lying, stealing, kidnapping, blackmail, robbery, burglary, shop-lifting, terrorism, pimping, prostitution, panderers, drug pushers, gang violence, larceny. Yet they have not lost their salvation. Legalists say you can't do these things and be a Christian, which is not true.

9. An illustration of immoral degeneracy and scar tissue of the soul is given in 2 Chr 36:11-13, "Zedekiah was twenty-one years old when he became king, and he reigned eleven years in Jerusalem. And he did evil in the sight of the Lord his God; he did not humble himself before Jeremiah the prophet who spoke for the Lord. Then he also revolted against King Nebuchadnezzar who had made him swear allegiance by God. But he stiffened his neck and hardened his heart against the Lord God of Israel."

a. In an arrogant self-image Zedekiah thought of himself as a hero who would deliver Israel from the yoke of Nebuchadnezzar. But Nebuchadnezzar wasn't even bothering Israel at this point.

b. Zedekiah was only required by Nebuchadnezzar to take an oath before God that he would be an ally. Yet because he was arrogant and had a hero self-image, he decided to revolt and broke his word.

c. The result of Zedekiah's scar tissue of the soul was the fifth cycle of discipline to the nation Israel.

3. Observations concerning category two love and immoral degeneracy.

a. The sanctification of category two love is marriage, 1 Thes 4:3-4; Heb 13:4.

b. The glory of category two love is described in the analogy between marriage and the relationship between Christ and the Church, 1 Cor 11:7; Eph 5:25-28.

c. Adultery is the bonified basis for divorce, Mt 5:32; Lk 16:18.

d. Adultery and fornication are often used in Scripture as analogies or illustrations of apostasy, Jer 3:8-10; Ezek 16:23-43, 23:24-28; Rev 17:1-5.

e. Promiscuity and fornication is forbidden as part of the protocol plan of God, Eph 5:3; Heb 13:4.

f. Scar tissue of the soul is the status quo of immoral degeneracy, Eph 4:19.

g. Scar tissue of the soul is also motivation for immoral degeneracy.


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; Moral Issues; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: degeneracy
Post 2 of 3
1 posted on 11/15/2010 5:37:18 PM PST by Cvengr
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To: Cvengr

Wow, that’s a lot of stuff. I’m just glad I’m saved and justified by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.


2 posted on 11/15/2010 5:41:53 PM PST by Jim W N
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To: Cvengr

Eph 4:18 doesn’t apply to Christians at all. I can imagine what errors follow.


3 posted on 11/15/2010 5:47:41 PM PST by sigzero
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To: Jim 0216

I agree with you.

The benefit of some of these studies to to help explain how so many other believers might slip out of fellowship and get wrapped up into good works or any number of sidetracked thought processes, which really aren’t in the Christian way of life.

I suspect the temptation will be even greater when we begin to lose freedoms which past believing generations struggled so hard to to protect.


4 posted on 11/15/2010 5:48:48 PM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: sigzero

Every time a believer sins, they have looked at something other than God. It is possible for believers to fall out of fellowship and not grow in the Spirit, until they return to Him by their volition.


5 posted on 11/15/2010 6:00:27 PM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Cvengr

Indeed you are right. Eph 4:18 still doesn’t apply to Christians nor can you make it apply. The context rules and it is talking about the ungodly and not Christians period.


6 posted on 11/16/2010 5:22:02 AM PST by sigzero
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To: sigzero

I’m not interested in making it apply, but I can understand how our Lord may allow it to very well apply to believers out of fellowship with Him, as well as unbelievers.

If one of us is mistaken, do you believe it is possible for that person to adhere to that mistaken idea until the first death, but still through faith in Christ receive rewards at the bema seat?


7 posted on 11/16/2010 7:29:31 PM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Cvengr

I don’t believe the Bible teaches that you can lose your salvation once given.

I also don’t believe the Lord would twist the context of the Bible clearly meant for the ungodly and make it pertain to the elect.


8 posted on 11/17/2010 6:57:20 AM PST by sigzero
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To: sigzero

Doctrine of Assurance of Salvation.

Quite correct, once we are in His family, we can’t lose it, but that doesn’t mean we can’t continue to scar our thinking by rebelling against what He provides and degenerate from what He has provided. We might leave many a crown on the table, so to speak, at the bema seat which had been predestined for us, but we rejected Him, thereby not being qualified for their being awarded to us. We still will have the crown of salvation.


9 posted on 11/17/2010 9:05:09 PM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: sigzero

BTW, one of the reasons I posted this was for those who might accuse Obama of never having been a believer.

We simply don’t know, but it is possible that if he ever had been a believer, then a degenerate state today could easily be identified with his current behavior by some of the mechanics explained in this doctrine.


10 posted on 11/17/2010 9:07:29 PM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Cvengr

I do not say “That person is not saved” because only God knows that. I can say “That person does not show by his life or actions that he is a Christian”. I can say that because the Word tells me to judge a mans actions. Of Obama I say, “That person does not show by his life or actions that he is a Christian.”


11 posted on 11/18/2010 5:29:04 AM PST by sigzero
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To: sigzero

I suspect we agree, but I do not find the same surety with insisting a believer cannot fall into the same state as described in Eph 4:18. IMHO, that step requires reading more into Scripture than what it provides.


12 posted on 11/18/2010 8:23:33 PM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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