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To: driftdiver
You wrote: "Solomon had more than one wife."

Yup. So did Abraham.

And so did Jacob whose name was changed by the Lord to Israel, father of the twelve tribes of Israel. The same man Israel who - as a polygamist - received tremendous promised blessings straight from God himself, as written in the Bible.

Looks like the Mormons who believe that polygamy may be authorized by God at times are in some pretty good historical company on that particular point, at least ...

14 posted on 05/29/2011 5:16:54 PM PDT by JustTheTruth (Sometimes the Truth hurts so much that most refuse to face or accept it, even when it is obvious.)
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To: JustTheTruth

I completely disagree with the Mormon faith and pray they will step away from it.

However I’d rather have a mormon as a neighbor than a muslim.


16 posted on 05/29/2011 5:41:17 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: JustTheTruth; driftdiver; fulltlt
(To Driftdiver)You wrote: "Solomon had more than one wife."

Yup. So did Abraham.

(Except that's not" "justthe(full)truth"...)

The Bible records only Sarai (Sarah) as having placed her slave in that capacity. (When you're a slave, JustTheTruth, there's not exactly "I dos" and "I don'ts" involved!)

Here, I've made it "easy" for you to check out what the Bible has to say on this matter with a Q&A:

Q. Who continues to deem Hagar a servant/slave after sleeping with Abram?
A. …Abram,
…Sarai,
…the Angel of the Lord (who some say is the pre-incarnated Son of God),
…Moses (Gen. 25),
…even the apostle Paul (Gal. 4:21-31),
…and Hagar herself.

Sarai labels Hagar as a gift as a "wife" to Abram, but as mentioned above, I question if a woman has the authority to "consent" on behalf of a slave.
Hagar was considered a slave both "before" and "after" sleeping with Abram. Why does the "before" matter? Just as a minor cannot "consent" to sex, a slave is in no better situation to "consent" to--or deny--her master's commands for sex. And in this case, the command didn't come from her husband, Abram; it came from her mistress (female word for "master"), Sarai (Sarai is twice referenced as "mistress"--Gen. 16:4,8).

Why does the "after" matter?

Because it shows she didn't become a "transformed" person--from slave to wifely status! Gen. 16:6,8,9; 21:11; 25:12; and Gal. 4:21-31 all are still referencing her as either a "slave" (twice in 21:11), "servant," or one who was told by the Angel to submit to her mistress (female word for "master"). By Gen. 25, Abraham is married to Keturah with no mention of Hagar (25:1) and is then buried with Sarah (25:10).

So, to summarize: If we were to call all the key witnesses to the stand, and hear what they have to say:

Q Hagar, after Sarai gave you to Abram and Ishmael was conceived, did you still acknowledge Sarai as your "mistress" in your conversation with the Angel of the Lord? [female master]
A Yes. (Gen. 16:8)

Q Sarai, when you were in your early nineties when Isaac was a toddler, how did you characterize Hagar?
A I told Abraham, Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with my son, Isaac. (Gen. 21:10)

Q Abraham, after Sarah gave you Hagar and you slept with her, how did you characterize Hagar?
A I told Sarah, as mistress (master) of her servant, Your servant is in your hands. Do with her whatever you think best. (Gen. 16:6)

Q When Sarah began to mistreat her servant, Hagar, did you intervene like what we might expect a husband to do?
A No. Hagar was Sarah's servant.

Q Angel of the Lord, when you called to Hagar after she conceived Ishmael, how did you reference her?
A Servant of Sarai (Gen. 16:8)

Q And when you conversed with Hagar, did you, Angel of the Lord, acknowledge that she was released from her servant role to Sarai?
A No. In fact, I told her Go back to your mistress and submit to her. (Gen. 16:9)

Q Moses, since you wrote Genesis, how did you identify Hagar in her last reference of that book? Did you link her to Abraham?
A No. I identified her as "Sarah's maidservant" (Gen. 25:12).

Q So in that same passage, you link Ishmael to Abraham, but you link Hagar only to Sarah?
A Yes.

Q Apostle, Paul How did the Holy Spirit lead you to interpret the Old Covenant as expressed through Abraham?
A For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise. These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother...Now you brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. But what does the Scripture say? 'Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son.' Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman. (Gal. 4:21-31)

19 posted on 05/29/2011 5:46:28 PM PDT by Colofornian (Key Q for Romney & Huntsman: Show us your spirit-birth certificate from Kolob)
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To: JustTheTruth; driftdiver; fulltlt; SkyDancer
And so did Jacob whose name was changed by the Lord to Israel, father of the twelve tribes of Israel. The same man Israel who - as a polygamist - received tremendous promised blessings straight from God himself, as written in the Bible.

We all know Jacob entered into polygamy unwilling as a matter of deception. (I didn't know deception was advocated or sanctioned by God)

As for receiving tremendous promised blessings, well God told Hosea to marry a prostitute, Gomer, who kept up her "cottage industry" post marriage.

I don't think you would claim that God cut off blessings to Hosea, right? Nor would we imply, like the implication you seem to be making, that God "blesses" or sanctions people who marry prostitutes who keep up a "cottage industry" post-marriage.

20 posted on 05/29/2011 5:50:41 PM PDT by Colofornian (Key Q for Romney & Huntsman: Show us your spirit-birth certificate from Kolob)
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To: JustTheTruth
And nary a one of those harems were told if they didn't get with the program that GOD would destroy them!


Doctines and Covenants section 132
 
51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.

 52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.

 53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.

 54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.

 55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.

 56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to brejoice.

33 posted on 05/29/2011 8:49:03 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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