Posted on 09/15/2011 5:06:42 AM PDT by bremenboy
Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says” (1 Corinthians 14:34).
“I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere. . .Let women learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression” (1 Timothy 2:8, 11-14).
The clarity of the Bible is unambiguous regarding God’s will. The role for man primarily involves “headship” while the role of woman involves “submission” (compare Ephesians 5:22-33). This is not a matter of one’s personal opinion, but rather simply a matter of what is written. The question is: “Are you ready to accept the role that God has written for you?” Obviously, the above passages forbid a woman to teach in certain circumstances. Women are commanded to be “teachers of good things” (Titus 2:3). We even see an example in the Bible where a woman with her husband corrected a preacher (Acts 18:26). So then, women can teach and can even teach men, but 1 Timothy 2:12 forbids her to “teach or to have authority OVER a man.” Her teaching and authority are not to be “over” a man. Preachers regularly stand up and preach with “authority” over others (Titus 2:14); however, this is not to be a woman’s role. If you are a member of a congregation who has women standing “over” men teaching and preaching, you are a member of something that the Bible condemns?
Allow me to clarify some things. It is not a matter of talent, for some women are much better communicators than some men. Neither is it a matter of inferiority seeing that men and women are both created in the image of God and neither are independent from each other (Genesis 1:27; 1 Cor. 11:11). It is simply a matter of roles that Deity has given and also practices. “But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God” (1 Corinthians 11:3). When the inspired apostle writes of the roles for men and women, he appeals to the model of the Godhead along with that of creation, showing Adam was formed first then woman and that woman was deceived by the serpent. Likewise, the three persons of the Godhead have distinct roles too. We see from the above passage that God (the Father) is head of Christ. The Holy Spirit is also subjective to Jesus (John 15:26; 16:13-15). The Father’s role was legislative; the Son’s role was executive; the Holy Spirit’s role is primarily of revelation (John 14:31; 16:13).
Men and women, together, can relate to Jesus in that as He is head of the church, so the husband is to be toward his wife, and as He submits to the Father, so the women to the man. Ironically, while women preachers are trying to teach the world the Word, they stand with the world in violation to the Word.
I, for one, agree wholeheartedly.
So do I...
Nobody told Deborah. Israel was cool with it.
And that’s all I gotta say about that.
So does this apply to Sunday School teachers as well?
Yeah, I’m wondering that too. ; )
Nobody appears to have told Priscilla— Paul seems to suggest
she was worthy of note. I am just saying I think the passage has been mis-understood. I have no problem with any person proclaiming the Gospel—if that is what they do.Pastor Arnold Murray of Shepherds Chapel Gravette Arkansas seems to have a credible teaching on this subject.
Bummer for the “woman at the well”...... she went into town and told the men everything about Jesus. Kinda like preaching the first sermon. John 4:7-29 hhmmmmm?
Thank You!! I couldn’t think of her name this morning...not enough coffee, yet. : )
Bummer for the “woman at the well”...... she went into town and told the men everything about Jesus. Kinda like preaching the first sermon. John 4:7-29 hhmmmmm?
You also have the rules for being a Bishop/Pastor/Deacon laid out in the Bible. Those rules limit it to be a man.
Deborah became Judge at a time when Israel was experiencing a spiritual and moral decline, partly due to the loss of their national leaders, Moses and Joshua. “In those days there was no king in Israel; every man did what was proper in his own eyes.” Judges 17:6; 21:25
God appointed Deborah. He can do that. Later in the NT, God lays out the rules for leadership. He can do that too. Those rules of leadership exclude women.
The woman at the well...extremely poor argument...she was in a leadership position at all. SHE WAS PROCLAIMING THE GOSPEL. Everyone is called to do that.
The fact is, the Bible limits leadership to men because that is God’s model and God’s plan. Don’t like it? Talk to God about it. He has already told you what He thinks on the matter.
Wow - I haven’t seen you posting around here for a couple of years now! What have you been up to, bremenboy?
<< Galatians 3:28 >>
New International Version (©1984)
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
New Living Translation (©2007)
There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.
English Standard Version (©2001)
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Enjoy the conundrum. As Christians we are all equal in Christ. Are we or aren’t we.
I have not met any Christians from Corinth in the first century AD. Believe they lived in a different culture where women were considered to be second class citizens and having a woman over a man would turn people away from the Gospel. Are we equal in Christ or not? Are we now living in Corinth or in a society where women leaders and teachers are acceptable?
I have already done extensive research on this issue so for me it was settled decades ago. One simply cannot have it both ways so I chose to be one with Christ.
I’m not sure what you are driving at but reading ALL of Galatians 3, NOT JUST verse 28, shows me that what is being discussed there is faith and the law.
That is not the same as what was being discussed originally.
I deplore people lifting a single verse as justification for a point-of-view.
Context does matter, especially with the Bible. It is very clear too.
“God appointed Deborah. He can do that.”
Absolutely correct. Which means HE can also appoint and annoint women to pick up and do the job now when men drop the ball. Or don’t bother to even pick it up.
I’m a Christian today because of Godly women. Not entirely, but after all these years, I couldn’t honestly say that God doesn’t work STRONGLY through them.
In the first century there were plenty of religious groups that only accepted women as leaders.
Paul actually explains the reason for this rule -- Adam was created before Eve, Eve led the way into sin. Having men as leaders reflects back to God's will in creation. Having women in leadership positions is a reflection of how Satan corrupted creation.
And the whole "equality" thing is talking about access to Christ and the Kingdom, not roles in the church. Elders and deacons have very specific requirements that many fine men who are otherwise good leaders do not possess. God gives us different talents and roles -- that doesn't make anyone inferior.
I have been ill three heart attacks and congestive heart failure
Israel is not the Church. The Church has different rules laid out for it in the NT. One of those rules, explicitly stated, is that women cannot teach and have the rule over men. Another of those rules is that a woman cannot be a Bishop/Pastor. The Bible is clear on those two points.
BINGO!
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