Posted on 10/26/2013 11:02:27 AM PDT by RBStealth
Earlier today, I reported that Fargo’s new bishop, Bishop John T. Folda, had contracted Hepatitis A while attending the recent Bishops’ School in Rome, and had unknowingly exposed worshippers at four churches to the virus.
It turns out that Bishop Folda isn’t the only new bishop to contract the virus. A statement released this evening from the Diocese of Tyler reports that their ordinary, Bishop Joseph E. Strickland, has also been diagnosed with Hepatitis A. Bishop Strickland
Or Why Communion in the hand is substantially safer from communicable disease over communion on the tongue. Or why here in California, with heavy illegal alien(immigrant) churches, you either get in the front pew to drink from the chalice, and/or make sure your not following behind an illegal migrant--tuberculosis, Hepatitis A, flu that will knock you off your feet for 3-7+ days or worse, or what not.
Or why living in an interconnected world,with heavily used international airports, all metropolitan areas are no different than being a child in a daycare disease ward.
There is no contact between the hand and the tongue - the priest holds the Host between thumb and forefinger, then as he places the Host on the tongue he simultaneously moves his thumb aside and completes the movement by pressing down with his forefinger.
Now, a priest with a communicable disease is touching the Host with his thumb and forefinger - BUT he has washed his hands prior to the Consecration.
Actually I find your assumptions biased or just plain ignorant.
On the tongue: involves breathing on the priests hand, a venue for spreading disease—this is unavoidable.
And certainly over 100 people or more, the risk of someone waddling their head and tongue at an innoportune moment brings the moment or mistake of the priest touching the tongue of the receiver.
Breathing on the priests hand, or accidently having your tongue touched by the priest, is a communicable disease risk for those later in the communion line. Much higher risk than over simple communion in the hand. Although both
bear risk.
This is common sense thinking and not biased. Or you could say I am biased towards avoiding communicable disease because this is where my thinking derives from. Whereas it would seem your bias is one in favor of COTT(Communion on the Tongue).
This is a catholic caucus thread, perhaps you didnt notice, it is a restricted thread. Although I dont mind your input, however once you are tolerated, then the flood gates open towards others. So I am telling you that you are not invited.
I personally receive in either fashion, depending upon who is doing the administering.
Most people with their mouth open, tongue out and head tilted back are probably holding their breath (at least I do).
Mistakes certainly happen (moving the head, closing the mouth, etc.) but hand touching hand when you don't know where those hands have been is probably not a good idea either.
I would think that the best way to avoid problems would be to receive the Host only, rather than the Precious Blood as well. Even with fortified wine and wiping and turning the chalice, that is probably a higher risk.
the grasp of the eucharist is the same for priest distributing on tongue vs. putting in hand. Both can be done without touching. But mistakes occur.
This is all common sense, a priest touches the host after either having his hands breathed on or his hand touching someones tongue inadvertently from someone with a virus or communicable disease, then wants to give it to you.
Over some, presumably a similar amt. of contact with hands during distribution of the host on the palm. The grasp of the host is the same in both. The amt. of unintended contact is presumably the same in both.
One involves breath(communicable transmission route CTR) and saliva contact(CTR) , the other involves hand touching(CTR). However close quarter breath and saliva are higher risk over hand transmission. READ!
The priest pouring cold water over his hands is not washing
— I am arguing with someone who is very imprecise!
Good luck
>I hate shaking hands in church. No, I obhor it.
I dont like it on 2 accounts
1) its not a meet and greet.
A meet and greet is where you say hello to someone and learn their name. The sign of peace is not that.
2)Its a communicable disease transmission route. As the article(s) suggest and Wikipedia link. You only need casual contact with another person to contact Hepatitis A or even Tuberculosis. Since at the sign of peace , it is not a meet and greet, and further I will then be eating from my hands some 10 minutes later. I only bow or wave, not shake hands.
At a dinner party or some other venue when I shake hands with someone I can choose not to touch my face w/ hands, and wash up before eating. This is not afforded in mass, and is especially risky during flu season.
3) the sign of the peace is an ‘outreach’ , its not an ‘inreach’ where you hug,kiss and shake hands with your family members first. Me and mine, treat is an outreach. This is nothing worse than turning around for the sign of peace and find the people occupied with their families, your stranded, the sign of peace is short, its awkward all the way around.
http://youtu.be/Uc80G6Yzu04
Even if it is about the CofE I still love this one.
Dont you just love someone who’s been hacking, coughing and sneezing behind you offering their hands during the sign of peace!
It just gives me the warm fuzzies.
Of coure I only bow, wave or nod.
Some parishes here have a heavy contingent of asians(So. Calif), so those parishes get it and its not awkward when I bow, etc. Since 50% or more of the people are doing the same or similar.
but some parishes nearly 100% are shaking hands and the people there take it personally to you not shaking their hands. Like I say, all of this is very awkward being in the mass and so close to the eucharist.
Commenters on this thread are making the assumption that the Hep A was transferred to the sick bishops during the Communion ceremony.
What about contaminated ice water from a party during the bishops stay in Rome?
That was how I and three other medical personnel ‘caught’ Hep A years ago - from the ice in the drinks on the evening refreshments cart.
The way this source was narrowed down was because that evening was the only time in our work that we were all together on that particular ward, and we all became ill within the same time frame, although by that time the other three personnel were all on different rotations of medical school or residency.
>Commenters on this thread are making the assumption that >the Hep A was transferred to the sick bishops during the >Communion ceremony.
I dont see anyone making that assumption, but the assumption is made that some things the priest knowingly or unknowingly has can be transmitted during the eucharist...precisely Hep A. Further, Hep A can be transmitted during the Eucharist, from the a communicant to the priest to another communicant, most probably either by COTH or COTT.
I personally see COTT being the most risky. Transmission by hand is what every one encounters when they touch a door knob, counter top, or shake someone hand. But transmission by breath, saliva is an additional risk imposed by COTT. Its especially risky in illegal immigrant communities that are now adays every where especially So. Cal.
COTT and chalice are additional risk.
HA....I refuse to shake hands anymore....I will give hugs, before I shake hands! People are getting used to my little weirdness...
I had someone want to shake my hand after a Christmas Eve service at my Mom’s church....I begged off saying...”I have a cold”....to which she responded....”So do I!”.....my mother and her husband, who greeted everyone, and touched or was touched by the sickies (including the greeter at the front door who was hacking as we walked in).....got very sick...my husband and I....No sickness. And, these were older people who should have known better!
The “sign of peace” is the main reason I stopped attending church. I do not attend church for “fellowship.” I go for reflection and atonement. I don’t need that process interrupted by socializing.
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It is interesting to me that the Body of the God-Man whose merest touch was able to heal lepers is now being seen as a disease vector. So much for the real presence.
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