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“Christians Did Disagree about the Canonicity of Some NT Books” (9/10)
Canon Fodder ^ | June 26, 2013 | Michael J. Kruger

Posted on 11/30/2013 9:41:51 AM PST by Gamecock

Full Title: Ten Basic Facts about the NT Canon that Every Christian Should Memorize: #9: “Christians Did Disagree about the Canonicity of Some NT Books”

When it comes to basic facts that all Christians should know about the canon, it is important that we recognize that the development of the canon was not always neat and tidy. It was not a pristine, problem-free process where everyone agreed on everything right from the outset.

On the contrary, the history of the canon is, at points, quite tumultuous. Some Christians received books that were later rejected and regarded as apocryphal (this was discussed in an earlier post). More than this, there was disagreement at times even over some canonical books.

For instance, Origen mentions that books like 2 Peter, 2-3 John, and James were doubted and disputed by some in his own day. Also, Dionysius of Alexandria tells us that some thought that Revelation was not written by the apostle John and should therefore be rejected.

It is important that we be reminded of such disputes and debates lest we conceive of the history of the canon in an overly-sanitized fashion. The canon was not given to us on golden tablets by an angel from heaven (as claimed for the Book of Mormon). God, for his own providential reasons, chose to deliver the canon through normal historical circumstances. And historical circumstances are not always smooth.

What is unfortunate, however, is that these disagreements amongst Christians are sometimes used as an argument against the validity of the 27-book canon we know today. Critics claim that such disagreements call into question the entire canonical enterprise. Why should we trust the outcome, it is argued, if some Christians disagreed?

Several factors should be considered in response. First, we shouldn’t overlook the fact that these disputes only affected a handful of books. Critics often present the history of the canon as if every book were equally in dispute. That is simply not the case. As we saw in a prior post, the vast majority of these books were in place by the end of the second century.

Second, we should not overestimate the extent of these disputes. Origen, for example, simply tells us that these books were disputed by some. But, in the case of 2 Peter, Origen is quite clear that he himself accepts it. Thus, there are no reasons to think that most Christians during this time period rejected these books. On the contrary, it seems that church fathers like Origen were simply acknowledging the minority report.

Third, we should also remember that the church eventually reached a broad, deep, and long-lasting consensus over these books that some disputed. After the dust had settled on all these canonical discussions, the church was quite unified regarding these writings. Of course, critics will suggest this is an irrelevant fact and should be given no weight. For them, the decisive issue is that Christians disagreed. But, why should we think that disagreements amongst Christians are significant, while unity amongst Christians is insignificant? The latter should be given the same consideration as the former.

But, even after offering these three responses, we should recognize that there is still a deeper issue in play for those who think disagreements amongst Christians invalidate the truth of the canon. Beneath this objection is a key (and unspoken) assumption, namely that if God were to give his church a canon he would not have done it this way.

Put differently, there is an assumption that we can only believe that we have the writings God intended if there are very few (if any) dissenters and if there is virtually immediate and universal agreement on all 27 books. But, where does this assumption come from? And why should we think it is true?

Indeed, there are many reasons to think it is false. For one, how does the critic know how God would give canonical books? This is a theological claim about how God works and what he would do (or wouldn’t do). But, how does the critic know what God would or wouldn’t do? To what source is he appealing? Surely, not the New Testament for that is the very source being criticized!

But, even more than this, we have good reasons to think that some dispute amongst Christians would be inevitable. Just the practical reality of giving books in real time and space, in real historical circumstances, spread out over different authors, on different continents, and at different times, would naturally create dispute in some places.

Whenever someone shows angst over these early canonical disagreements, I often ask a simple question: “What did you expect the process would be like?” It is at this point, that people often realize they have an overly-pristine expectation about how God would deliver his books—an expectation that is entirely their own and not derived from Scripture or from history.

All of this reminds us that God sometimes uses normal historical processes to accomplish his ends. And those historical processes are not always neat and tidy. But, this should not detract from the reality that the ends are still God’s.


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: antilegomena; bible; canon
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Ten Basic Facts about the NT Canon that Every Christian Should:

1. The New Testament Books are the Earliest Christian Writings We Possess
2. The New Testament Books are the Earliest Christian Writings We Possess
3. The New Testament Books Are Unique Because They Are Apostolic Books
4. Some NT Writers Quote Other NT Writers as Scripture
5. The Four Gospels are Well Established by the End of the Second Century
6. At the End of the Second Century, the Muratorian Fragment lists 22 of our 27 NT books
7. Early Christians Often Used Non-Canonical Writings.
8. The NT Canon Was Not Decided at Nicea—Nor Any Other Church Council.

1 posted on 11/30/2013 9:41:51 AM PST by Gamecock
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To: Gamecock

It was settled by committee, with disagreements remaining.


2 posted on 11/30/2013 9:43:26 AM PST by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: metmom; HarleyD; Alex Murphy; Greetings_Puny_Humans
Origen mentions that books like 2 Peter, 2-3 John, and James were doubted and disputed by some in his own day.

And yet Luther is excoriated for his doubts on James, which contrary to the belief of some he didn't take out of the canon.

3 posted on 11/30/2013 9:44:36 AM PST by Gamecock (If you like your constitution, you can keep your constitution. Period. (M.S.))
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To: Gamecock

Is that why Luther added to/took away words from the Bible? A serious sin.


4 posted on 11/30/2013 9:55:50 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: James C. Bennett

Actually, no meeting or single committee “decided” or “settled” anything. Any such notion yanks the authority of Scripture from the One who is the authority. Jesus decided, and authenticated the cannon. Afterwards, His Word was recognized by the church congregations. This fulfilled a very important prophecy by itself (as to canonicity). The best that could be said about the councils of the 4th century, were that they acknowledged the reality of what the church congregations had accepted as Scripture. That is about it.


5 posted on 11/30/2013 9:59:20 AM PST by Salvavida (The restoration of the U.S.A. starts with filling the pews at every Bible-believing church.)
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To: Gamecock

And like Luther, Origen was excommunicated. Luther, however, didn’t cut his own whatchamacallits off.


6 posted on 11/30/2013 10:22:53 AM PST by Gluteus Maximus
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To: Gamecock
There  were disagreements, but nothing close to extent that Herr Luther disagreed with the canon

From "Martin Luther Changed and/or Discounted 18 Books of the Bible":

Although Protestants like to think positively about Martin Luther because of his supposed belief in sola Scriptura (the Bible alone), the truth is that Martin Luther changed parts of the Bible and discounted the value of many books.

Notice a change he admitted to regarding Romans 3:28:

You tell me what a great fuss the Papists are making because the word alone in not in the text of Paul…say right out to him: ‘Dr. Martin Luther will have it so,’…I will have it so, and I order it to be so, and my will is reason enough. I know very well that the word ‘alone’ is not in the Latin or the Greek text (Stoddard J. Rebuilding a Lost Faith. 1922, pp. 101-102; see also Luther M. Amic. Discussion, 1, 127).

This passage strongly suggests that Martin Luther viewed his opinions, and not the actual Bible as the primary authority–a concept which this author will name prima Luther. By “papists” he is condemning Roman Catholics.

Regarding the New Testament Book of Hebrews Martin Luther stated,

It need not surprise one to find here bits of wood, hay, and straw (O’HarePF. The Facts About Luther, 1916–1987 reprint ed., p. 203).

He also wrote,

St. James’ epistle is really an epistle of straw…for it has nothing of the nature of the gospel about it” (Luther, M. Preface to the New Testament, 1546).

Perhaps none of Martin Luther’s writings on the Bible are as harsh as what he wrote about “The Revelation of Jesus Christ” (Revelation 1:1). Specifically he wrote,

About this book of the Revelation of John…I miss more than one thing in this book, and it makes me consider it to be neither apostolic nor prophetic…I can in no way detect that the Holy Spirit produced it. Moreover he seems to me to be going much too far when he commends his own book so highly-indeed, more than any of the other sacred books do, though they are much more important-and threatens that if anyone takes away anything from it, God will take away from him, etc. Again, they are supposed to be blessed who keep what is written in this book; and yet no one knows what that is, to say nothing of keeping it. This is just the same as if we did not have the book at all. And there are many far better books available for us to keep…My spirit cannot accommodate itself to this book. For me this is reason enough not to think highly of it: Christ is neither taught nor known in it” (Luther, M. Preface to the Revelation of St. John, 1522).

As the following quotes show, Martin Luther did not care for several books in the Old Testament either:

“Job spoke not as it stands written in his book, but only had such thoughts. It is merely the argument of a fable. It is probable that Solomon wrote and made this book.”…

“Ecclesiastes ought to have been more complete. There is too much incoherent matter in it…Solomon did not, therefore, write this book.”…

“The book of Esther I toss into the Elbe. I am such an enemy to the book of Esther that I wish it did not exist, for it Judaizes too much…”

“The history of Jonah is so monstrous that it is absolutely incredible.” (as quoted in O’Hare, p. 202).

Furthermore, Martin Luther had little use for the first five books of the Old Testament (sometimes referred to as the Pentateuch):

Of the Pentateuch he says: “We have no wish either to see or hear Moses” (Ibid, p. 202).

========================

Without a doubt, "Scripture Alone" began as nothing less than Luther throwing out any Scripture that didn't suit Luther. The totally lame rationale Luther used for shedding seven books of the OT is just the best excuse Marty could come up with for throwing out at least some of the OT Scripture that clearly shows he is a heretic. A heretic who knew full well that his invented doctrines were unBiblical and anti-Biblical.

Of course, if someone denies the power of the Holy Spirit by asserting that for over fifteen hundred years the Holy Spirit could not and did not protect the Word of God from the inclusion of error, it's no big deal for such a person to elect their Self as the only true authority on what should included in the canon and what should be thrown in the slop bucket.

Interpreting Scripture one way one day and a different way on another is small potatoes for folks who have no problem denying the power of the Holy Spirit. That's why while every one of the thousands of "Scripture Alone" groups have reversed what they teach as the Truth on at least a few major points in the past century they all still claim to base what they believe on Scripture.

7 posted on 11/30/2013 10:56:16 AM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory)
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To: Gamecock
"And yet Luther is excoriated for his doubts on James, which contrary to the belief of some he didn't take out of the canon. "

ROTFLOL

No, he just moved it to an Appendix prefaced with Luther's statement that what was in the Appendix wasn't inspired and was unworthy of being considered to be on par with the rest of the New Testament.

8 posted on 11/30/2013 11:00:26 AM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory)
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To: narses

Ping worthy


9 posted on 11/30/2013 11:06:23 AM PST by verga (The devil is in the details)
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To: Gamecock
But, why should we think that disagreements amongst Christians are significant, while unity amongst Christians is insignificant? The latter should be given the same consideration as the former.

It's just a smear tactic that is used to discredit anyone you disagree with.

The divisions amongst non-Catholics are highly emphasized while what unifies us is de-emphasized, by Catholics.

Yet when the same is pointed out to Catholics, they emphasize what unifies them and de-emphasize what discredits or divides them.

It's a classic example of hypocrisy. Do as I say, not as I do.

10 posted on 11/30/2013 11:24:04 AM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: Gamecock

bkmk


11 posted on 11/30/2013 1:03:39 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: Rashputin; Gamecock; zot; Interesting Times; NYer

Of course by Luther’s time, the West had gunpowder and cannons had been created; thus the disagreement over canons took place with cannons.


12 posted on 11/30/2013 1:09:21 PM PST by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: Salvavida
Jesus decided, and authenticated the cannon.

How was this accomplished?

13 posted on 11/30/2013 1:37:24 PM PST by NYer ("The wise man is the one who can save his soul. - St. Nimatullah Al-Hardini)
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To: NYer

Ever heard of King James?


14 posted on 11/30/2013 1:39:55 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Jesus said Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: Gamecock

The antilegomena:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVv7nOPjqNE


15 posted on 11/30/2013 2:08:26 PM PST by ReformationFan
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To: NYer

If you study Christology, you learn that Jesus is the Word of God. He is God (in the flesh). And if you go to the authentication passage, then you get it: the Word of God was never left up to man. So during the time in which Jesus was not on the earth, it was the superintendency of the Holy Spirit (I think that is what you are asking). Man was used as a vessel, yes, but man didn’t “decide” anything. Roy Zuck has a pretty decent treatment of that, among others.


16 posted on 11/30/2013 2:41:20 PM PST by Salvavida (The restoration of the U.S.A. starts with filling the pews at every Bible-believing church.)
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To: Just mythoughts
Ever heard of King James?

If the kjv was good enough for Christ and Paul than it is good enough for me. BTW I have an autographed copy I might be interested in selling if the price is right.

17 posted on 11/30/2013 5:16:40 PM PST by verga (The devil is in the details)
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To: Salvavida
Jesus decided, and authenticated the cannon [sic].

Impossible and just plain ridiculous! The New Testament was not written until after he ascended into heaven. The embarrassing fact for those who hold on to sola scriptura is that the canon of the Scriptures is not self authenticating. If anyone other than the Church can decide the canon then sola scriptura becomes ego solus ipse (only me myself)!

18 posted on 11/30/2013 5:59:25 PM PST by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

Which church?


19 posted on 11/30/2013 6:00:36 PM PST by GeronL (Extra Large Cheesy Over-Stuffed Hobbit)
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To: Salvation

Just read your bible and don’t worry about what’s in my Bible.


20 posted on 11/30/2013 6:02:29 PM PST by Starstruck (If my reply offends, you probably don't understand sarcasm or criticism...or do.)
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