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To: ConservativeDude

What the author says here is partly true, and partly false:

“The Bible never called homosexuality an abomination. Nor could it have, for as we have seen, Leviticus predates any conception of sexual orientation by a couple of millennia at least. What the Scriptures condemn is sodomy, regardless of who commits it or why. And yet, as I have argued throughout, in our own day homosexuality deserves the abominable label, and heterosexuality does too.”

The law condemns acts, that much is spot on.

The problem is that Paul does in fact state point blank that those committing the unnatural acts are in an identifiable place outside of God’s grace and under God’s wrath (they have been turned over to their depraved mind).

So....it seems....that in a sense, Paul does “sort of” affirm the depraved category as a category of persons who are committing such acts.

But, Paul also spoke out with perfect clarity against categorizing followers of Christ as being bound by sin...so I think the author is right in that Paul would not endorse the contemporary of “homosexual” and “heterosexual” in the identity game of today....anymore than he would endorse someone calling themself a “Thief” and giving that social identity its own sinful reality.

So that’s the rub.

I think this article is good....but I don’t think it is yet perfect.


17 posted on 03/03/2014 7:19:26 AM PST by ConservativeDude
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To: ConservativeDude
Full disclosure: I haven't read the article yet. I am only commenting on your comment.

The author said: “The Bible never called homosexuality an abomination. Nor could it have, for as we have seen, Leviticus predates any conception of sexual orientation by a couple of millennia at least. What the Scriptures condemn is sodomy, regardless of who commits it or why.

It strains credibility to read these verses as only condemning the sexual act itself. It seems clear that it is the participants (two males) and not the act who are the problem which Moses condemns.

Leviticus 18:22 - You shall not lie down with a male, as with a woman: this is an abomination.

Leviticus 20:13 - And a man who lies with a male as one would with a woman both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be PUT TO DEATH; their blood is upon themselves.

ConservativeDude wrote: The problem is that Paul does in fact state point blank that those committing the unnatural acts are in an identifiable place outside of God’s grace and under God’s wrath

Paul writes this as someone who knows what it is like to be outside of God's grace and under God's wrath. He was once there. If a hard case like Saul of Tarsus can be converted, then there is hope for even the hardest heart in the homosexual community. It should be pointed out that the pre-grace Paul was thoroughly trained and knowledgeable of the Hebrew Scriptures (including Leviticus) and he apparently saw no reason, post-grace, to abandon condemnation of homosexuality.

Again, I have not read the article, but from the comments I get the impression that the author is just trying to define away Scripture passages which teach something he doesn't want to hear. Maybe his argument is more sophisticated and detailed than most but still of the same ilk. Maybe the Hebrews of the time didn't know of the concept of sexual orientation but they were certainly aware of homosexuality. Anyway, even if the Hebrews didn't understand homosexuality or sexual orientation, the Lord who inspired Moses to write these passages did.

39 posted on 03/03/2014 8:11:27 AM PST by CommerceComet (Ignore the GOP-e. Cruz to victory in 2016.)
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