Posted on 09/22/2014 8:25:59 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
Jerome's Vulgate was the first translation of the Old Testament into Latin --- directly from the Masoretic Text.
Given that, was Jerome's Version, the Vulgate, inspired by God if Jesus did not quote from the Masoretic Text?
If Jesus Christ did not quote from the Masoretic Text, what authoritative power(s) could the original Vulgate have contained, and what authentic inspiration did Jerome possess at that time of his translation?
At the time its translation the Vulgate was considered to be authoritative, but how correct were any at this time to declare the Vulgate to be authoritative and/or inspired? If it was not considered to be either authoritative or inspired, then why was it given undue prominence at that time?
One need not be lacking to any extent to proffer this question (which I again shall proffer in another way):
Looking back to times past, we have the luxury of hindsight, but at the time Jerome originally translated the Masoretic Text into Latin, he erroneously provided an inclusion into his work -— a work that was written around 3 1/2 to 4 centuries after Christ walked the face of the Earth.
Ergo, then (as now, too) they should not have said to any extent that Jerome’s Vulgate was the authoritative, correct Translation to go by.
And yet people keep saying this and acting like they have got it all “down-pat”. And this tendency to do so has occurred and is still occurring now for over two thousand years (and that is just for the NT!)
Bingo! I noticed that right away too. Some deep confusion there.
What do you think was first written 3.5-4 centuries after Christ that was “erroneously” used by Jerome?
Where did you get the idea that the Masoretic Text was a translation? Give me an authority for this statement, please.
No it does not date to at least 500 years after Jerome.
It received prominence in the 7th to 10th century AD, but even the proto-Masoretic text date back to at least 150 B.C. with some arguing a date before that.
I WILL provide the quote (I have to look for it) from a professor at a Jesuit university, who himself said that Jerome used the 4th century Masoretic Text. This professor said that it was in use during the 4th century, and he isn’t the only one, either.
And, it is interesting to note (IIRC), the Apocryphal books were sourced elsewhere by Jerome...
false.
This is the second post I’ve personally seen you write on the subject in question.
What gives? What are you getting at, exactly? What are you trying to convince people of, or dissuade them from?
false.
What? Please answer my question.
Although He, as Jehovah, did cause Moses to write down His Words, it was to that written Word that He referred to in reproving Satan, thus authorizing its standing alone as irrefutable and eternal. Mt. 4:4 in Gk, "It is written" is in the perfect tense, not "It was written." Most certainly Jesus did quote from memory, of what He had caused to be written. He also referred to the Word as the "hrema" the spoken word, as having come out of the mouth of God (that is, of His Own mouth), IIRC.
Note that I said extant.
It received prominence in the 7th to 10th century AD [...]
Another neat trick, since the Masoretes (largely Karaite Jews, of largely two schools, ben Nephtali and ben Asher) are not found before c.600/650 CE (again, IIRC). So your thought of a deep history of the Masoretes is not accurate. Rather, they, once formed, carried on the accuracy of transmission that the Jews have always declared.
[...] but even the proto-Masoretic text date back to at least 150 B.C. with some arguing a date before that.
That is quite defensible.
I WILL provide the quote (I have to look for it) from a professor at a Jesuit university, who himself said that Jerome used the 4th century Masoretic Text. This professor said that it was in use during the 4th century, and he isn’t the only one, either.
I think where you and I are cross-threaded is in the use of 'Masoretic'. - It has long been known that the Masoretic text(s) contain the majority Jewish tradition - That is, the Jews will agree that the Masoretic text is the closest to historically accurate. And I have no argument with that. But the Masoretes themselves do not date that far back, albeit that they did their work properly. Hence, proto-Masoretic v. Masoretic.
By “enclision” do you mean a book or two? This would have to do with formation of the canon, over which there has been, and still is, much dispute.
Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
This is where you've gone way, way wrong. Jesus was completely, but perfectly human, and also fully Deity in substance. He was never, ever wrong. In any matter. And by this statement you have reviled His Nature and Name almost inexcusably.
I was speaking of Jerome, not Jesus.......................
Wrong. It is the writings that were and are inspired (= God-breathed), not the writers. The writers were not the authors. The Holy Spirit was the author of the Scriptures at the time they were written.
The substance was recorded in the personal mode (sometimes using an amanuensis), style, and language utilized by the writer, as directed by the Holy Ghost.
Jerome's Vulgate was the first translation of the Old Testament into Latin --- directly from the Masoretic Text.
The Vulgate was not the first translation into Latin. And it was not from Masoretic Text.
At the time its translation the Vulgate was considered to be authoritative,
The New Testament thought it was perfectly fine to make use of a then current translation of the OT (the Septuagent), and it is authoritative. I'm not sure what your point is.
If the Masoretic Text is a translated work (and it is) that appeared around the 4th century, (barring any earlier Masoretic Text that preceded it yet did not survive at the time Jerome’s Vulgate was completed), how could Jesus have quoted from it?
Do you know what the Masoretic Text is?
Sewing doubt still ... so obvious for whom you are striving.
No, I am afraid you are wrong. I am, of course, not saying that the authors of Scripture were inspired in all of their writings. When they wrote a grocery list or a love poem, they weren’t inspired.
But neither were they passive vessels of an overtaking Spirit.
God inspired the authors to write His Word.
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