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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

St. Augustine is a Catholic saint as is his mother St. Monica. His works have been studied in colleges and universities and have been found to be consistent with Petrine authority, and the Catholic Credo.

The paragraphs you write do not support what you try to communicate. The reference is to those to whom the Gospel has not reached their shores or their ears. This will include Muslim children who never get to hear, read, or even think of Christ and His Church but instead are indoctrinated and forced to abide. If however they lead the virtues spelled out in the Beatitudes, they are not sealed off from the graces of God. The same applies to those who lived under Stalin. Here’s from the quote you take from JP II.

“But it is clear that today, as in the past, many people do not have an opportunity to come to know or accept the gospel revelation or to enter the Church.”

This stuff you write on Augustine that purports to connote that salvation outside the Church based on other forms of Christian beliefs has long since been thoroughly debunked.

See here for a quick response.

http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/did-st-augustine-retract-his-beliefs-in-the-catholic-faith-at-the-end-of-his-life


10 posted on 11/28/2014 11:15:58 PM PST by Steelfish
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To: Steelfish
Whoops, I accidentally italicized the last post. Here it is again but more readable:

His works have been studied in colleges and universities and have been found to be consistent with Petrine authority, and the Catholic Credo..

If that's the case, then you should be able to give an example of this. Let us start with this statement by Augustine:

"We know that God's grace is not given to all men . To those to whom it is given it is given neither according to the merits of works, nor according to the merits of the will, but by free grace. To those to whom it is not given we know that it is because of God's righteous judgment that it is not given." (Augustine, Treatise On Rebuke and Grace)

If this is too hard, why not give an example of Catholic teaching on any of the verses Augustine touches on, and then we can compare them?

See here for a quick response.

Your link does not actually provide a response. It is an answer to, apparently, an ignorant person described as a Presbyterian (or maybe the Catholic just misunderstood that Presbyterian) who likely never read the Retractions.

All of my quotes are from the Pelagian controversy, of which not one letter of your article replies to, and none of it is from the Retractions. Though the Retractions does indeed have juicy quotes in it relating to the Papacy, but I am not in the mood to use them on you just yet.

13 posted on 11/28/2014 11:25:01 PM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Steelfish
The reference is to those to whom the Gospel has not reached their shores or their ears. This will include Muslim children who never get to hear, read, or even think of Christ and His Church but instead are indoctrinated and forced to abide. If however they lead the virtues spelled out in the Beatitudes, they are not sealed off from the graces of God.

I forgot to comment on this. The gist of the quotation is that everyone has access to the Grace of God, even if it is in a Pelagian sense (by their good works they access it). Augustine says that Grace is not given to all, and that God is sovereign and righteous in choosing who does and does not get it.

These views contradict. The latter is entirely Reformed, as understood by Luther, the Augustinian monk, or Bishop Jansen, whose book "Augustus," which only elucidates Augustine's teachings, was condemned by multiple Popes.

14 posted on 11/28/2014 11:31:13 PM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Steelfish
St. Augustine is a Catholic saint as is his mother St. Monica.

more false catholic teaching that some are elevated to sainthood and others not.

My mom and dad are Christian saints....as are all who are in Christ....as determined by the Bible.

68 posted on 11/29/2014 8:47:54 AM PST by ealgeone
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