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To: caww

The Word became flesh. I.e., the Word began to be the act of existence of a human nature. The material for the flesh came from Mary, precisely as the flesh of any child comes from its mother’s body.

Mary became the mother of the Word-made-flesh at the instant of conception—not at His birth, exactly as every woman becomes a mother at the instant of her child’s conception, not at his birth.

The title “Mother of God” means only this: that Mary is the mother of the Person who is the Word-made-flesh, who is the Second Person of the Trinity.

The title never meant that Mary is our savior! Nor did it ever mean that Mary is the origin of the Second Person of the Trinity from eternity!

The title means only that because Mary is the mother of a Person who is God, she may be called “Mother of God.”

Just as, if Emily is the mother of Sam, and Sam is a fireman, Emily is the mother of a fireman.

As for Mary’s being the mother of all of us: Saint John tells us that Jesus said to John, “Son, behold your mother,” and to Mary, “Mother, behold your son.”

The gospel does not engage in chit-chat. “Wasn’t that nice of Jesus to provide for his mother?” There is always a spiritual truth involved—one that involves US.

On the cross, Jesus is giving birth to the Church. The water and blood that flow from his side represent the water of Baptism and the blood of the Eucharist—the two primary sacraments—the sacraments of initiation—i.e., the two sacraments that create a Christian.

Hanging on the cross, at the very moment that He is bringing into being His BODY on earth—the Church—Jesus gives Mary to the Church as our mother, and us to Mary as her children. Mary is our mother because the flesh of the body of Christ was taken from her body, and we are now the body of Christ.

Why do people say that Catholics believe that Mary is our savior, when NO Catholic has ever believed that?

Why do people say that Catholics worship Mary, when EVERY Catholic knows that doing so would be the sin of idolatry?

The reason must be that people are being taught slanders against the Catholic Church, in order to keep them from inquiring about what it actually teaches.


76 posted on 12/25/2014 5:22:26 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: Arthur McGowan

“Why do people say that Catholics believe that Mary is our savior, when NO Catholic has ever believed that?”

It’s from the Catechism. However if Christ is the one being accepted as Savior then that’s refreshing to hear.

Catechism 491:

“Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, “full of grace” through God, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:

The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.”

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a3p2.htm


85 posted on 12/25/2014 7:45:05 PM PST by ScottfromNJ
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To: Arthur McGowan

“The Word became flesh. I.e., the Word began to be the act of existence of a human nature. The material for the flesh came from Mary, precisely as the flesh of any child comes from its mother’s body.”

Matthew 1:18New International Version (NIV)
18 This is how the birth of Jesus the Messiah came about[a]: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit.

Pregnant though the holy spirit, but not of human flesh. While Jesus was carried by Mary in human terms she would be considered a surrogate mother. Joseph and Mary adopted Jesus much like us gentile believers have been adopted into sonship, Ephesians 1:5. Actually from a biology stand point the flesh doesn’t come from the mother’s body. Nutrients are passed through the placenta into the baby and it grows its own flesh.
God is Spirit and Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit. Through the Power of God his Son became human flesh and blood not because of some sinful human.

“Mary became the mother of the Word-made-flesh at the instant of conception—not at His birth, exactly as every woman becomes a mother at the instant of her child’s conception, not at his birth.”

John 4:24 New International Version (NIV)
24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

While I agree with the instant conception part she became the mother of the flesh, but God gives us our Spirit thus the Spirit only has one maker “God”.

“The title “Mother of God” means only this: that Mary is the mother of the Person who is the Word-made-flesh, who is the Second Person of the Trinity.”

Matthew 15:11New International Version (NIV)
11 What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.”
Mother of the flesh, but not the person. Our Spirit makes us who we are.

“The title never meant that Mary is our savior! Nor did it ever mean that Mary is the origin of the Second Person of the Trinity from eternity!”

If you say so

“The title means only that because Mary is the mother of a Person who is God, she may be called “Mother of God.”

See above you just re-worded it.

“Just as, if Emily is the mother of Sam, and Sam is a fireman, Emily is the mother of a fireman.”

Sure because flesh of flesh and genetics of genetics, but comparing a fireman to God is hardly accurate.

“As for Mary’s being the mother of all of us: Saint John tells us that Jesus said to John, “Son, behold your mother,” and to Mary, “Mother, behold your son.”

1 Timothy 5:8 New International Version (NIV)
8 Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

So because Jesus was obeying the commandments, that makes Mary the mother of us all?

“The gospel does not engage in chit-chat. “Wasn’t that nice of Jesus to provide for his mother?” There is always a spiritual truth involved—one that involves US.”

Not really sure what your point is?

“On the cross, Jesus is giving birth to the Church. The water and blood that flow from his side represent the water of Baptism and the blood of the Eucharist—the two primary sacraments—the sacraments of initiation—i.e., the two sacraments that create a Christian.”

1 John 1:7 New International Version (NIV)
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

No, the birth of the Church was at Pentecost, Acts 2:1-13. The Blood of Christ is for the forgiveness of sins NOT the Eucharist. The Eucharist represents the body which was broken for our transgressions not the blood. You do know that the word sacraments are Latin and the NT was written in Greek which has no such word? Sorry but no sacrament makes a Christian, only the belief in Jesus Christ makes a Christian.

1 Corinthians 3:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Romans 10:8-10 New International Version (NIV)
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

“Hanging on the cross, at the very moment that He is bringing into being His BODY on earth—the Church—Jesus gives Mary to the Church as our mother, and us to Mary as her children. Mary is our mother because the flesh of the body of Christ was taken from her body, and we are now the body of Christ.”

Your whole statement is made up there is absolutely no Scripture that claims any of it.

“Why do people say that Catholics believe that Mary is our savior, when NO Catholic has ever believed that?”

You pray to here and our only mediator is Jesus Christ, so you must think she has some divine power. IAW the post above your Catechism does.

“Why do people say that Catholics worship Mary, when EVERY Catholic knows that doing so would be the sin of idolatry?”

You bow, kiss, pray, and crown many statues of her so yes you do indeed worship her. You can talk all you want, but I see proof every single day in Catholic business, homes, and on cars.

“The reason must be that people are being taught slanders against the Catholic Church, in order to keep them from inquiring about what it actually teaches.”

The real reason is that you live by the words of the catechism and not by the words of the Bible.

“No Sola Scripture right”? Just like the Church of Thyatira you have been given a chance to repent, but you refuse.


87 posted on 12/25/2014 8:09:49 PM PST by mrobisr
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