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To: .45 Long Colt

So, you believe everything you need to know about Mary is in the Bible?

Jesus never thought that, and neither did the Authors of the Gospels.

IOW, it doesn’t say so in the Bible.

That’s why we have the Holy Spirit, given to His Church, to pass down revealed truth, unadulterated and unchanged for two thousand years.

When did they start your church?


5 posted on 01/14/2015 11:28:26 PM PST by moonhawk (What if they gave a crisis and nobody came?)
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To: moonhawk; Elsie; Springfield Reformer; daniel1212; WVKayaker; MamaB; imardmd1; aMorePerfectUnion

Check this one out.


6 posted on 01/14/2015 11:47:04 PM PST by Mark17 (Weary and worn, facing for sinners, death on the cross, that He might save them from endless loss)
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To: moonhawk; .45 Long Colt
So, you believe everything you need to know about Mary is in the Bible? Jesus never thought that, and neither did the Authors of the Gospels.

How do you know what Jesus or the Authors of the Gospels thought on the subject?

IOW, it doesn’t say so in the Bible.

You're right, it doesn't tell us what Jesus or anyone else for that matter, thought on the subject.

That’s why we have the Holy Spirit, given to His Church, to pass down revealed truth, unadulterated and unchanged for two thousand years.

He did. He inspired the Scripture we have and all the extra Biblical nonsense about Mary taht the RCC added on later, isn't in there.

Surely if He thought it was that important for us to know, He would have included it.

When did they start your church?

The Holy Spirit started the church I belong to on the day of Pentecost.

7 posted on 01/15/2015 1:06:17 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: moonhawk

Thank you for calling Heaven's Hotline!

Every call is important to us.

 

 

If you wish to access the Heaven's Hotline FAQ sheet, Press 1 to be connected to Catholic Answers

If you wish to access the Heaven's Hotline FAQ sheet en Espanol, Pulse 2 para ser conectado a Catholic Answers

If you wish to talk to GOD Himself, please realize His time is limited. Many other representitives and even His mother is available to handle your request, praise, plea, prayer and/or worship/adoration/veneration.

Stay on the line and one will be with you shortly.

Thank you for calling Heaven's Hotline! All lines are presently in use...

 

 

 

After receiving an answer from Heaven's Hotline, Press 3 to hear instructions for the correct amount of alms to be given to the poor.  (Or Hail Marys...)

(Cue background music: Ave Maria )


17 posted on 01/15/2015 4:55:01 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: moonhawk
That’s why we have the Holy Spirit, given to His Church, to pass down revealed truth, unadulterated and unchanged for two thousand years.

Houston; we have a problem...


1 Timothy 4:1    Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

Now the Spirit manifestly saith, that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils,


Revelation 1:4-6, 11,

John to the seven churches which are in Asia. Grace be unto you and peace from him that is, and that was, and that is to come, and from the seven spirits which are before his throne,

And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth, who hath loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

And hath made us a kingdom, and priests to God and his Father, to him be glory and empire for ever and ever. Amen.

 

11 Saying: What thou seest, write in a book, and send to the seven churches which are in Asia, to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to  Pergamus, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to  Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.


(Read the 2nd and 3rd chapters to see what ERROR these 'CATHOLIC CHURCHES' were involved in.)

18 posted on 01/15/2015 4:56:34 AM PST by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: moonhawk; OrthodoxIndianCatholic
So, you believe everything you need to know about Mary is in the Bible? Jesus never thought that, and neither did the Authors of the Gospels. IOW, it doesn’t say so in the Bible. That’s why we have the Holy Spirit, given to His Church, to pass down revealed truth, unadulterated and unchanged for two thousand years. When did they start your church?

Same argument as the Mormons and other cults. Under sola ecclesia, in which the church alone is the supreme authority, as it alone is assuredly right in defining what Scripture and tradition consists of and means, then all sorts of things not seen in Scripture, and even what is contrary to it (which the church defines as not doing so), can be said to be binding Truth.

Mormonism has its fables, and Catholicism has theirs.

But holding Scripture as supreme and sufficient does not mean that all that can be known is in Scripture, but that all that is necessary for salvation and growth is provided in its formal and material aspects as a completed canon.

Which flows from the fact is that "the word of God/the Lord" was normally written, even if sometimes first being spoken, and that as written, Scripture became the transcendent supreme standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims as the wholly Divinely inspired and assured, Word of God. As is abundantly evidenced

And which testifies (Lk. 24:27,44; Acts 17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23, etc.) to writings of God being recognized and established as being so (essentially due to their unique and enduring heavenly qualities and attestation), and thus they materially provide for a canon of Scripture (as well as for reason, the church, etc.)

Which meant that the additional revelation of NT oral preaching was established as being of God upon Scripture substantiation in word and in power, not upon the premise of ensured perpetual magisterial infallibility. Which is the case with Rome.

Moreover, an examination of anything called "the word of God/the Lord will show it being written, or subsequently revealed, and which was wholly inspired of God, possessing a power that goes beyond merely being true. (Heb. 4;12)

Thus if God wants us to know something more than what is written, then the veracity of would have to be established upon Scripture substantiation.

In contrast the veracity of RC teaching does not rest upon that, lest she be as evangelicals, but rests upon the premise of ensured perpetual magisterial infallibility.

Nor are what she claims to pass on as traditions or any of her infallible decrees the wholly inspired words of God. Nor are even the arguments and reasoning behind them necessarily without error.

But Rome has presumed to infallibly declare she is and will be perpetually infallible whenever she speaks in accordance with her infallibly defined (scope and subject-based) formula, which renders her declaration that she is infallible, to be infallible, as well as all else she accordingly declares.

Thus a faithful RC is not to ascertain the veracity of RC teaching by examination of evidences (for that reason). For to do so would be to doubt the claims of Rome to be the assuredly infallible magisterium by which a RC obtains assurance of Truth

..in all cases the immediate motive in the mind of a Catholic for his reception of them is, not that they are proved to him by Reason or by History, but because Revelation has declared them by means of that high ecclesiastical Magisterium which is their legitimate exponent.” — John Henry Newman.

It was the charge of the Reformers that the Catholic doctrines were not primitive, and their pretension was to revert to antiquity. But the appeal to antiquity is both a treason and a heresy. It is a treason because it rejects the Divine voice of the Church at this hour, and a heresy because it denies that voice to be Divine... I may say in strict truth that the Church has no antiquity....Primitive and modern are predicates, not of truth, but of ourselves...The only Divine evidence to us of what was primitive is the witness and voice of the Church at this hour. . — Most Rev. Dr. Henry Edward Cardinal Manning, Lord Archbishop of Westminster, The Temporal Mission of the Holy Ghost: Or Reason and Revelation (New York: J.P. Kenedy & Sons, originally written 1865, reprinted with no date), pp. 227-228.

Thus the reasoning (akin to Mormonism), Catholic doctrine, as authoritatively proposed by the Church, should be held as the supreme law; for, seeing that the same God is the author both of the Sacred Books and of the doctrine committed to the Church, it is clearly impossible that any teaching can by legitimate means be extracted from the former, which shall in any respect be at variance with the latter. .(Providentissimus Deus; http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18111893_providentissimus-deus_en.html)

And instead of being as the Bereans, implicit assent is called for,

It follows that the Church is essentially an unequal society, that is, a society comprising two categories of per sons, the Pastors and the flock...the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors. - VEHEMENTER NOS, an Encyclical of Pope Pius X promulgated on February 11, 1906

"The intolerance of the Church toward error, the natural position of one who is the custodian of truth, her only reasonable attitude makes her forbid her children...to endeavor to discover religious truths by examining both sides of the question. This places the Catholic in a position whereby he must stand aloof from all manner of doctrinal teaching other than that delivered by his Church through her accredited ministers." — (John H. Stapleton, Explanation of Catholic Morals, Chapters XIX, XXIII. the consistent believer (1904); Nihil Obstat. Remy Lafort, Censor Librorum. Imprimatur, John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York )

And incredibly, it is argued that one cannot even know what Scripture is with the infallible magisterium to tell him so:

"People cannot discover the contents of revelation by their unaided powers of reason and observation. They have to be told by people who have received in from on high. " - Cardinal Avery Dulles, SJ, “Magisterium: Teacher and Guardian of the Faith,” p. 72; http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2008/08/magisterial-cat-and-mouse-game.html

.the believer cannot believe in the Bible nor find in it the object of his faith until he has previously made an act of faith in the intermediary authorities between the word of God and his reading. - Catholic Encyclopedia>Tradition and Living Magisterium; http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15006b.htm

Back to Mary and the Biblical premise of establishment of Truth based upon Scriptural substantiation, one would have a hard time in Bible times explaining kneeling before a statue and praising the entity it represented in the unseen world, and as having Divine powers and glory, and making offerings and beseeching such for Heavenly help, directly accessed by mental prayer.

Moses, put down those rocks! I was only engaging in hyper dulia, not adoring her. Can't you tell the difference?

It seems that the RC argument is that an assuredly (if conditionally) infallible magisterium is essential for determination and assurance of Truth (including writings and men being of God) and to fulfill promises of Divine presence, providence of Truth, and preservation of faith, and authority. (Jn. 14:16,26; 15:26; 16:13; Mt. 16:18; Lk. 10:16)

And that being the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation (oral and written) means that Rome is that assuredly infallible magisterium. Thus any who knowingly dissent from the latter must be in rebellion to God. Does this fairly represent what you hold to or in what way does it differ?

28 posted on 01/15/2015 6:04:20 AM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: moonhawk; .45 Long Colt
>>So, you believe everything you need to know about Mary is in the Bible?<<

If it's not would you pleas show us any other infallible source to prove the apostles taught the assumption of Mary?

Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!

We wouldn't want to have to think those that teach the assumption of Mary to be accursed would we?

41 posted on 01/15/2015 8:47:20 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
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To: moonhawk
That’s why we have the Holy Spirit, given to His Church, to pass down revealed truth, unadulterated and unchanged for two thousand years.

What proof do you have that it is the Holy Spirit giving you this information???

59 posted on 01/15/2015 1:00:16 PM PST by Iscool
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To: moonhawk

“to pass down revealed truth, unadulterated and unchanged for two thousand years.”

Now that’s funny not really, but it is and absolute lie! How many councils has your denomination had, apporx 21? Most of them changed fundamental beliefs thus your claim is built on a lie. I will give you a couple as examples do your research you have been boondoggled.

1245AD - 1st Council of Lyons
1274AD - 2nd Council of Lyons
Discussed and formulated the official church position on purgatory.

1545-1563 - Council of Trent
Cannon 6, The establishment of the 7 sacraments for salvation not by Grace alone.

These changes are MAJOR doctrine changes as both refer to eternal life one way or the other. I have just cited two examples there are so many more. One example took over 1200yrs and the other over 1500yrs. Sorta odd that they were passed down, but took that long to become “Official” doctrine.


67 posted on 01/15/2015 6:53:47 PM PST by mrobisr
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