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To: Tuscaloosa Goldfinch
A very important point. A lot of pre-tribulation doctrine is very America-centric. Why? Because it is largely in the US that Christians do not face real persecution. By 'real' I am not talking about a 'war on Christmas' or bakers getting sued for not making a cake for a gay couple. By real I mean a real chance of getting killed for your faith ....that is the default position for Christians in some countries, and ranges from a risk of getting arrested and harassed in places like China to getting thrown in prison in places like Iran to getting killed (in horrible ways) in places like Syria. In Egypt, Orthodox Christians will often tattoo a small cross on the gap between their thumb and index finger. Why? So that, even under pain of death, they can never be able to deny their savior.

My point?

Christians in several countries around the world are already going through the tribulation, and it has gotten significantly worse for those in the Middle East and North Africa in the last four years. Their men are killed. Their women raped. Their children sold into slavery. Some are given a choice to convert to Islam (and they refuse and get matured for Christ), most just get directly slaughtered.

Which makes me wonder what doctrine is this that makes American Christians believe that their lot is to magically vanish, leaving behind empty clothes, dental fillings and jewelery, when it is obvious around the world that other Christians are not going through a Star Trek experience.

I am not willing to go as far as saying that American Christians are getting deceived, but I will most definitely say that a large number will get a very nasty surprise.

18 posted on 08/23/2015 8:54:30 PM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: spetznaz

Get matured for Christ = get matyred for Christ.


20 posted on 08/23/2015 8:57:43 PM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: spetznaz

excellent points


38 posted on 08/23/2015 9:19:48 PM PDT by Nevadan
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To: spetznaz
I am not willing to go as far as saying that American Christians are getting deceived, but I will most definitely say that a large number will get a very nasty surprise.

I will challenge that - The most avid group of preppers tend to be Pre-Trib Christians. It is among the prophecy aware churches that the pulpits are aflame with the news of perilous times coming. It is among these same churches that the judgement upon America is being preached... These folks know what's coming (however imperfectly) and are wide awake.

Whether their interpretations are accurate is beside the point - It won't be these folks that will get a 'nasty surprise'- That will be the fare of those who pay no attention to Spirit and Prophecy.

As a mid-trib (rather, pre-wrath) advocate, I have differences with my pre-trib brethren, but I would not consider them to be unprepared as a whole. Rather, that they are the ones who will be the most prepared to ride out the coming storm... Any storm. And if they are right, or I am right, it is all a matter of increment - We both know that we will be at that great wedding feast on the sea of glass as the worst of the cataclysm is carried out on the earth far below. We are both preparing for what is to come, and have every intention to be ready to endure until that day.

117 posted on 08/24/2015 12:10:20 PM PDT by roamer_1
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To: spetznaz
Christians in several countries around the world are already going through the tribulation, and it has gotten significantly worse for those in the Middle East and North Africa in the last four years.

Most definitely Christians in parts of the world are enduring tribulations and persecution. This is distinct, however, from the 7-year period described in the Revelation of Jesus Christ, given to the Apostle John. Most scholars I have read agree the period of Tribulation will begin with the signing of a peace treaty between Israel and the AntiChrist, a treaty that the AntiChrist will break halfway through the 7-year period, when the AntiChrist sets himself up in the Temple as a god.

Now, I have heard many arguments for pre-trib, mid-trib and post-trib rapture. I have also heard arguments that the rapture will not occur until after the Millenial Reign of Christ on earth. I tend to believe in the pre-trib rapture, for the same reason other have stated. We are never promised that we will be shielded from persecution, trials and tribulations; but the Great Tribulation is the wrath of God being poured out on mankind, and as Christians, we are not subject to His wrath, having been saved from it by His blood.

But I do not claim to have the definitive answer to this question (neither does anyone else have the definitive answer, regardless of the certainty of their claims). And so while I pray for a pre-Trib rapture, I intend to live as though we will be here for the entire time.

127 posted on 08/24/2015 1:20:45 PM PDT by CA Conservative (Texan by birth, Californian by circumstance)
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