Posted on 05/13/2016 6:16:04 AM PDT by marshmallow
A major Evangelical figure in the US says that Catholics were right about The Pill
One surprising effect of the rise of same-sex marriage in the United States may be a convergence between evangelicals and the Catholic Church.
The best evidence for this is a recent book by Albert Mohler, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, and one of the nation’s most prominent Evangelical thinkers. In We Cannot Be Silent: Speaking Truth to a Culture Redefining Sex, Marriage, & The Very Meaning of Right & Wrong, he tackles the challenge of same-sex marriage. From a scriptural point of view, the idea seems obviously wrong, even abhorrent, but many Christians are swimming with the tide.
In a significant theological shift, Dr Mohler makes two surprising proposals for his evangelical readers. First, that evangelicals need to use arguments based on natural law. And second, that Catholics got it right on contraception and that the evangelicals got it wrong.
Interest in Catholic thinking comes as a surprise, for Dr Mohler is a staunch upholder of Luther’s key to interpreting Christian revelation. His watchword is sola Scriptura, that all Christian thinking must be grounded in Biblical teaching. Furthermore, he has distanced himself from Catholics. In an appearance on Larry King Live in 2000, he said forthrightly, “As an evangelical, I believe the Roman church is a false church and it teaches a false gospel.” And as recently as 2013, he asserted that “Evangelical Christians simply cannot accept the legitimacy of the papacy and must resist and reject claims of papal authority.”
However, without diluting any of his theology, Dr Mohler acknowledges that the rapid spread of same-sex marriage is clear evidence that many Americans, even if they are Christian, are not moved by Scriptural arguments. Nowadays, he says, “ to articulate any..............
(Excerpt) Read more at mercatornet.com ...
Confusing to me. If the "Roman church" is false, as he says, then HOW can it be right on ANYTHING?
Just wondering.
This is what God said He was going to do.
Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD GOD, that *I* will send a famine in the land, NOT a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
With this line he is essentially saying, "I don't actually believe what I am saying."
This is a bright line. You hold to it and morality is the foundation of society. You transgress it, even a little, and you enter the quicksand of progressive relativity.
People in America are ill-informed and don’t care if they are. Opinions regarding Christian values with scriptural citing is rare.
If the “Roman church” is false, then any church that traces it’s origin back to the “Roman church” is also false.
The eternal law is, that God directs man, man does not direct God. Creating your own church, creating your own creed, is dictating to God. And God will reject this every time it’s tried. Man is not greater than God.
This is why in Luke 13, Christ Himself foretold that at the judgement, He would cast out the vast majority of “believers”.
He didn’t say “maybe” He would do it. He said He going to do it. So it will happen. Period.
So to me, this bickering between Protestants and Catholics is the same as a dog biting it’s own tail.
In these last days, which is now, the vast majority of “believers” have one thing in common, they are all Catholic or can trace their origins to the Catholic church.
Mark 9:38-42.
You have to listen to the Boss on these people who sow division among Christ’s followers.
Irony: the highly insightful Mohler is, 50 years after Humanae Vitae, coming around toward the Catholic "deep reality" position just at the head Catholic honchissimos are hiding it under a bushel basket and topping that with concrete blocks.
Evangelicals being 'more Catholic' is a good sign. What a splendid world it would be if the Catholics would be Catholic!
bump for later
No conflict. He said, "I believe the Roman church is a false church and it teaches a false gospel.". That doesn't mean everything the church of Rome (aka, the Roman Catholic church) teaches is automatically wrong. I think you got it right on a number of doctrines and can be commended for maintaining those teachings (i.e., the virgin birth of Jesus Christ, Jesus' divinity, His resurrection and ascension and His imminent return). But, your church has over the years moved away from the truth of the gospel and perverts the doctrine of justification by faith apart from works. What Mohler means by "false church" is that the Roman Catholic church claims it is THE church Jesus established and everyone must be a Catholic in order to have eternal life.
On this particular subject - the birth control pill and the effect it had on the decline of sexual morality - your church also had/has it right. But, let's not forget that it has only come to light in the last few decades that the pill is an "abortifacient" which means it not only can prevent conception by blocking the production of an egg, it can also cause any fertilized egg that does get produced from implanting causing it to be expelled from the uterus. Evangelicals have always been pro-life. Catholicism rejected almost all forms of birth control - not just the pill. That's why we can agree with you on this subject while still rejecting the false claims of your gospel and assertions of being THE church.
Does this help answer your confusion?
I don't think that is what he is saying at all. This "bright line" you say is being drawn seems to ignore that even within Catholicism there is approval for married couples to have sexual intercourse without the intent of conceiving such as what is termed "natural family planning". Instead of looking for reasons to criticize and find fault with what he said, why not be more positive and be happy that there is common ground on the topic of sexual morality and same-sex marriage? Shouldn't we be working together?
The Protestants got THEIR version of the Bible from the Catholic Church ONE THOUSAND, FIVE HUNDRED AND FORTY YEARS after the Catholic Church had "done the work." The CHURCH decided...not anyone else.
So, the question stays...how can the Church be SO wrong, EXCEPT FOR one of its teachings?
Perhaps you don't see the disconnect that I do. If so, then we can agree to disagree, with all due respect.
Hah, I sound like one of the Corleone family!
Versus the Latter Day Saints, you mean?
I trace the belief I have to that which is described in the Bible. The faith I hold to is the same as believed and taught by Peter, Paul and the Lord Jesus Christ. How about you?
Like I already said, the Roman Catholic church continues to uphold many of the basic tenets of Christianity (I gave you examples) but has changed several critical doctrines over the centuries including the doctrine of justification by faith apart from works - THE most important part of the gospel (good news).
WHAT "false gospel"? The early Catholic Church collated the Gospels, by deciding WHICH writings were true gospels and which were false gospels.
Neither Mohler nor I are talking about the New Testament books called the "Gospel According to ...". Those four writings are the compilation of eye-witness accounts of the life and teachings of Jesus Christ given under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. What Mohler means by the "gospel" is the good news that Jesus Christ is God with us who died on the cross to make atonement for the sins of the world and that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life. This good news is presented in those first four books and is reinforced and expounded upon in the rest of the Scriptures that make up the Bible - the Old and New Testament books.
The Church decided which teachings were which...no one else, except, of course, the defrocked and disgraced Father Martin Luther.
I don't know who you learned this from, but they are wrong and are deceiving you. The church received the Divinely-inspired writings from the Apostles and recognized those writings that made up the Old Testament as being from God just as the Jewish people had for thousands of years. Jesus confirmed their authority numerous times. No human has any authority to decree what is from God and what is not - His word is established forever. Our job is to hear and obey His word, not tell Him what parts we want and what we can discard. Do you imagine some group of Catholics sat around with a pile of "books" and played eeny-meeny-miney-moe with them??? Long before Christianity even existed there was recognition of a canon of Holy Spirit inspired writings and they were written, copied, distributed, memorized, taught and held sacred within the temple and synagogues of the Jews. That same process developed with the writings of the Apostles and disciples and the early churches retained, copied, distributed, memorized, quoted, taught and revered them as from God. Eventually, they were gathered together in a single canon and added with the Old Testament books and called "The Holy Bible", but they were accepted as Scripture long before.
The Protestants got THEIR version of the Bible from the Catholic Church ONE THOUSAND, FIVE HUNDRED AND FORTY YEARS after the Catholic Church had "done the work." The CHURCH decided...not anyone else.
Actually, NOT true. In fact, the King James Version was translated using the Hebrew and Greek texts and not the Latin version used by the Roman Catholic church (the Vulgate). Do a little research on the Vulgate and the Douay-Rheims/Challoner version. You may be surprised to learn that the scholars that worked on it relied on and used much of the King James Version. I know this is typical Catholic rhetoric in place of actual facts, but your use of "Church" to mean ONLY the Roman Catholic church is narrow minded and only shows a bigoted and false view of what the body of Christ, His bride, His assembly truly entails. That's unfortunate because in will hinder not only your growth in the Christian faith but fellowship with all of true believers - your brothers and sisters in Christ.
So, the question stays...how can the Church be SO wrong, EXCEPT FOR one of its teachings? Perhaps you don't see the disconnect that I do. If so, then we can agree to disagree, with all due respect.
The confusion and disconnect is due to not understanding the terms used in this article. Protestants/Evangelicals hold to many of the same tenets of historical Christianity as Catholics do yet you would assert they are wrong (SO wrong?) on those areas of dissent. So, I ask you why you are not also seeing your own disconnect?
I always try to be respectful when discussing on these threads and readily agree that in some cases we will have to agree to disagree. But at least you have some facts to help you understand why we might disagree.
Have a nice weekend.
You too.
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