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To: boatbums
BUT...I completely reject yours and the author's opinions that Jesus is a pagan/man-god and that Christianity has "failed". It is ironical to me how it is extolled that America has been such a friend and protector of Jews and Israel while missing completely the FACT that it is/was because America was a CHRISTIAN nation that she had these responses to Jews. Our Christian faith includes the same canon of Scripture as the Jews (re: the Old Testament) and our acceptance of Jesus Christ as the Messiah and the incarnate Son of God is precisely because of the ancient witness of the Jewish prophets of Almighty God.

Having once been where you are and believed what you believe, I know that there isn't much I can say that you will listen to. Your arguments seem to be based on two points:
1)America is a chrstian nation.
2)Chrstianity is true because it is authorized by the Bible.

As to the first argument, it literally does not matter which religion is the traditional American religion, any more than it matters what the traditional Irish, Burmese, Peruvian, or Eskimo religion is. Saudi Arabia is a moslem country founded by moslems; that does not mean that Saudis are "supposed to be" moslems. Unless one follows national, ancestral "gxds," the religion of a nation's founders have exactly zip to do with anything.

2)I am well aware of the fact that the chrstian scriptures include the TaNa"KH--and the patronizing attitude that comes with it. Yes, chrstians (some of them; certainly not the ancient historical churches) are philo-Semitic, but this is based on chrstian, not Jewish thinking (and being chrstian, this is only natural). Such chrstians consider Judaism to be pre-incarnation chrstianity and today's Jews as a sort of museum piece of what pre-incarnation chrstianity was like. And again, believe me, I've been there. That was once exactly my way of thinking. It was a starting point, but unless one moves on from there it is nothing but a dead end.

You think Jews should appreciate that chrstians acknowledge the Jewish Bible. And to a certain extent, perhaps that's true. But please don't be hypocritical. Mormons scriptures include your Protestant bible along with the "book of mormon," D&C, and "pear of great price." Do you appreciate that? Do you feel flattered? Do you feel "grateful" that they deign to accept your scriptures but don't regard them as sufficient? Most Fundamentalist Protestants hate and despise mormonism, call it a "demonic" religion, and constantly attack it. This is exactly the situation Jews find themselves in with regard to chrstians. Your bible includes theirs. Theirs does not include yours. And they react to the notion that other books and doctrines had to be added exactly as you react to mormonism.

Since a storm is coming up, I'll end quickly with two points:
1)You believe chrstianity because your bible contains a "new testament." You assume from the outset that it is the "fulfillment" of the "old." You interpret the "OT" prophecies "about J*sus" the way you do because you accept the "new testament" from the outset. In other words, in order to accept the "new testament" as the "fulfillment" of the "old testament," you have to already believe in the "new testament." Period.
2)The fact that you were born into a chrstian family/nation/civilization is irrelevant to the question of whether or not chrstianity is true. So are "personal experiences" or feelings in your heart or that you "know that you know that you know that you know." All of that is faith. All of that is belief. The Revelation at Sinai is a fact of history for which faith is not even necessary. It is the Supreme Revelation. It sits in judgment on all other claims of revelation. To automatically allow the "new testament" the right to interpret that Revelation is a logical fallacy known as "affirmation of the consequent."

Gotta go now. You have done your chrstian duty. May HaShem open your eyes.

17 posted on 07/14/2016 8:51:16 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Sof davar hakol nishma`; 'et-ha'Eloqim yera' ve'et-mitzvotayv shemor, ki-zeh kol-ha'adam.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Since a storm is coming up, I'll end quickly with two points: 1)You believe chrstianity because your bible contains a "new testament." You assume from the outset that it is the "fulfillment" of the "old." You interpret the "OT" prophecies "about J*sus" the way you do because you accept the "new testament" from the outset. In other words, in order to accept the "new testament" as the "fulfillment" of the "old testament," you have to already believe in the "new testament." Period. 2)The fact that you were born into a chrstian family/nation/civilization is irrelevant to the question of whether or not chrstianity is true. So are "personal experiences" or feelings in your heart or that you "know that you know that you know that you know." All of that is faith. All of that is belief. The Revelation at Sinai is a fact of history for which faith is not even necessary. It is the Supreme Revelation. It sits in judgment on all other claims of revelation. To automatically allow the "new testament" the right to interpret that Revelation is a logical fallacy known as "affirmation of the consequent." Gotta go now. You have done your chrstian duty. May HaShem open your eyes.

Hoping you weathered that storm. :o)

I'd appreciate it if you didn't presume to tell me what I "assume" nor why I believe what I do. I don't know what happened in your past to draw you away from the Christian faith - though I know "who" is really behind it (I John 4:3 ; 2 Corinthians 4:4). I believe Christianity because of who Jesus Christ is and how I have come to know and follow him since the age of sixteen. I also put myself through Bible college precisely because I wanted to know for myself if it was true rather than just swallow what I had been born into (Roman Catholicism). I found that every doubt I had was answered by God's word which I know is both the writings contained in the Tanakh as well as the New Testament.

What is called the New Testament, as you probably already know, consists of the eye witness accounts of the disciples of Jesus covering his time here on earth and his teachings. As you probably also know, the majority of the first Christians were Jews and they spread the good news of the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ throughout the world. Just as Almighty God revealed His truth to His prophets before Christ, He also did the same with selected prophets after Christ's ascension and together these writings present an unbroken and consistent message throughout of God's redemption of all creation and His plans for eternity.

My faith, like your own (even though you claim you base yours on "fact"), is an integral part of my life. What sets Christianity apart from all other faiths/religions is that our redemption/salvation comes to us by the grace of God through faith and that, without faith, it is impossible to please God. We do not earn, merit or deserve heaven because it is not based on what we do for God but on what HE has done for us. All throughout the Tanakh there is a consistent message of God's love, His holiness and His mercy. He promised a redeemer and savior to the cast out occupants of Eden - Adam and Eve - and then through His prophets gave detailed prophecies of how we could recognize Him when He came. Jesus fulfilled them all. There remains a veil of confusion over the eyes of those who refuse to recognize that the Messiah has already come and that He is coming again (soon, I believe).

I will pray that HaShem removes that veil and opens your eyes to the truth that Jesus IS the Messiah, the Christ, the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world and that you once again believe He has saved you from your sins.

24 posted on 07/15/2016 9:12:24 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator; boatbums
1)You believe chrstianity because your bible contains a "new testament." You assume from the outset that it is the "fulfillment" of the "old." You interpret the "OT" prophecies "about J*sus" the way you do because you accept the "new testament" from the outset. In other words, in order to accept the "new testament" as the "fulfillment" of the "old testament," you have to already believe in the "new testament." Period.

On the contrary. Please show us where the NT is not a fulfillment of the OT. There are many places, as you probably well know, where the writers of the NT and Jesus Himself, stated that certain events are/were fulfillment of OT prophecies.

2)The fact that you were born into a chrstian family/nation/civilization is irrelevant to the question of whether or not chrstianity is true. So are "personal experiences" or feelings in your heart or that you "know that you know that you know that you know." All of that is faith. All of that is belief. The Revelation at Sinai is a fact of history for which faith is not even necessary. It is the Supreme Revelation. It sits in judgment on all other claims of revelation. To automatically allow the "new testament" the right to interpret that Revelation is a logical fallacy known as "affirmation of the consequent."

Except that faith is required. Abraham believed God and it was counted/credited to him as righteousness. Well before the Law.

47 posted on 07/20/2016 10:11:09 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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