The Novelty of the Personal Relationship with Jesus

Patheos ^ | 08-13-2016 | James F. McGrath

[NRx]

I was asked on Reddit about a topic that I blogged about at some point in the past, but not finding the post in question, I thought I would revisit the topic. The phrases “personal relationship with Jesus” and “personal savior” are not only not found in the Bible, but are much more recent than that. Here is what Joel Miller discovered by performing an ngram to see how frequently the phrases appear in books (HT Scot McKnight):

[LouieFisk]

“I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.” - John 15:15

“Friend” sounds mighty personal to me.

[Mr. Douglas]

There is so much we are “re-learning” thanks to the ability to share ideas on the internet. The truth percolates to the surface.

The whole concept of hell is also going trough a complete new phase of scrutiny. A LOT of people are switching from the traditional “Eternal Conscious Torment” (ECT) position to “Conditional Immortality” (CI). CI basically states that only the saved receive immortality, and what they are saved from is the second death. And that death is, in fact annihilation - death. They cease to exist.

And the reason that is becoming more popular is that it not only matched what the bible actually says about the fate of the lost, but matches the personality of the God of the bible.

I’ll have to read up on this one...

[DesertRhino]

The middlemen have mostly been fired in the last 100 years.
See also, “gatekeepers”.

[faucetman]

This guy is a moron. Don’t be swayed by the devil’s demons.

I understand my faith because I have read the bible in it’s entirety. I understand the concepts, not by memorization, but by understanding.

A quoted verse here, a quoted verse there, is pretty much useless without context.

The bible has been translated into English, my first language. I can READ and understand English. The Holy Spirit teaches me and influences my understanding.

This Bozo is a fool and I can learn nothing from him.

[ilovesarah2012]

I thought Patheos was an atheist site.

[soycd]

There is only one belief, and everyone has their own.

[LouieFisk]

“This guy is a moron.”
==
I can’t be too hard on him - it’s actually quite sad that to many people the idea of having a personal relationship with God is a some kind of a bizarre and wild “new idea”. More’s the pity.

[xjcsa]

The whole concept of hell is also going trough a complete new phase of scrutiny. A LOT of people are switching from the traditional “Eternal Conscious Torment” (ECT) position to “Conditional Immortality” (CI). CI basically states that only the saved receive immortality, and what they are saved from is the second death. And that death is, in fact annihilation - death. They cease to exist.

I have more or less made this very switch, although I wouldn't say I'm sure of it yet.

I’ll have to read up on this one...

LouieFisk has a good point upthread about "friends."

[Lonely Bull]

I recommend reading the comments on the various pages. One possible lesson is that the word “personal” can be rather ambiguous.

[Orbiter]

Or eternity spent apart from God, His mercy and grace.

[LouieFisk]

“I have more or less made this very switch, although I wouldn’t say I’m sure of it yet.”
==
To my thinkin’ it has more biblical support. Others mileage on the idea will vary, of course.

“LouieFisk has a good point upthread about “friends.”
==
Thanks, here’s the Greek entry for the term “friend” used in that instance (from Strong’s Greek Lexicon):

“phílos – a friend; someone dearly loved (prized) in a personal, intimate way; a trusted confidant, held dear in a close bond of personal affection.

Note: The root (phil-) conveys experiential, personal affection – indicating 5384 (phílos) expresses experience-based love.”

Like I sez, sounds personal enough to me.

[Mr. Douglas]

This is interesting:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/theologyintheraw/2014/10/is-having-a-personal-relationship-with-jesus-a-biblical-concept/

And so is this:
https://rogerupton.wordpress.com/2012/09/18/misused-bible-verses-part-three-jesus-is-knocking-on-the-door-of-your-heart/

I think the one above is partially missing the point that Jesus speaks of communion with an individual person. And of course the warnings are to all churches and individuals. i.e. Any individual within this corrupt church can open the door and enjoy a PERSONAL relationship with Christ, regardless of what others in their particular church choose to do.

[Lonely Bull]

“This guy is a moron.”

==

I can’t be too hard on him - it’s actually quite sad that to many people the idea of having a personal relationship with God is a some kind of a bizarre and wild “new idea”. More’s the pity.

I also don't think that this representation of his and others' ideas is entirely accurate; I had this sort of confusion in mind when I just wrote that the word personal can be "ambiguous." At the same time, I also think that most people on "his side" haven't been as clear as they could've been.

It might be a good idea to ask people involved in the discussion to clarify their terms and to define what they mean (and what they don't mean).

[Mr. Douglas]

Or eternity spent apart from God, His mercy and grace.

---

Yes, but if you are dead, it’s kinda moot. And make no mistake, the ONLY people that are offered immortality are believers. In fact, it is juxtaposed against the fate of those who are not believers, e.g. John 3:16 and Romans 6:23.

[LouieFisk]

“I had this sort of confusion in mind when I just wrote that the word personal can be “ambiguous.”
==
I read “I guess that’s why God invented highlighters, so we can highlight the parts we like and ignore the rest” as more haughty, snooty and dismissive than ambiguous.

[Lonely Bull]

“I had this sort of confusion in mind when I just wrote that the word personal can be “ambiguous.”

==

I read “I guess that’s why God invented highlighters, so we can highlight the parts we like and ignore the rest” as more haughty, snooty and dismissive than ambiguous.

I'd include that remark as an example of how not to make one's case (though I'd also have to mention that the word "moron" doesn't make many friends).

Even without that comment, "personal" is still used ambiguously sometimes. In these discussions over "personal relationship with Jesus," I suspect that most "thoughtful" people are actually closer than they suspect--or care to suspect, heh--but misunderstandings (and even active hostilities) don't help the discussion.

[Lonely Bull]

I wrote, “(though I’d also have to mention that the word “moron” doesn’t make many friends).”

I should clarify that I already knew that you weren’t the one using the word, and I wasn’t accusing you of using it.

[spintreebob]

The words personal and relationship are psycho-babble of the times. My mom and dad accepted Christ in the 1920s. They did use the terms relationship and personal. But the meaning of the old terminology was essentially the same as the new vocabulary.

Billy Graham used the new words from his start in the 1940s. Those words were pervasive in all combined church crusades of the 1950s.

The distinction is simply between becoming a Christian by being baptized as a baby vs becoming a Christian by conscious choice at the age of reason.

[LouieFisk]

“Even without that comment, “personal” is still used ambiguously sometimes. In these discussions over “personal relationship with Jesus,” I suspect that most “thoughtful” people are actually closer than they suspect—or care to suspect, heh—but misunderstandings (and even active hostilities) don’t help the discussion.”
==
Well, whatever the discussion, the piece linked to just doesn’t add much. It’s a mix of a google search and some guy who’s got his nose outta joint because religious hierarchy doesn’t impress people as much as God Himself does, served up with a heapin’ helpin’ of biblical illiteracy. I’m not intending to sound mean, but it’s just an insignificant meaningless mess.