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To: Poison Pill

“Those would be your first two clues as to it’s age.”

That would only tell us how old the oldest surviving copy is and who was the first to mention the Book of Revelation in writing. There are, for instance, fragmentary passages of Revelation in the writings of the Early Church Fathers dating from the second century. That only tells us it was written before then and was known by then. It doesn’t tell us when it was written. The oldest actual copies - in toto or in fragments are more recent. So that would only tell us that we have fragments and whole copies from the third or fourth century. That doesn’t tell us when the book was written.

The internal evidence can only give us some ideas as to when it was written. Nothing is guaranteed other than that range of years. The fact that the Temple’s destruction, and Jerusalem’s destruction, is not described as an accomplished fact might suggest it was written BEFORE A.D. 70. The fact that 666 = Nero would strengthen that suggestion since he died in 68. Other factors suggest it was written as the late 90s, however.

Having had to assign dates to medieval mss. when I was in graduate school I can tell you this is sometimes a very technical business. Perhaps the most accessible book for an early dating of Revelation is Gentry’s: https://www.amazon.com/Before-Jerusalem-Fell-Dating-Revelation/dp/0982620608


9 posted on 02/09/2017 6:00:43 PM PST by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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To: vladimir998

Irenaeus was convinced on the later date of Revelation.


38 posted on 02/09/2017 9:30:24 PM PST by redleghunter (Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation)
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To: vladimir998
The fact that 666 = Nero

Depends upon whose 'facts' you are listening to.

45 posted on 02/10/2017 4:26:31 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: vladimir998
The fact that the Temple’s destruction, and Jerusalem’s destruction, is not described as an accomplished fact might suggest it was written BEFORE A.D. 70. The fact that 666 = Nero would strengthen that suggestion since he died in 68. Other factors suggest it was written as the late 90s, however.

It might also suggest that Revelation was created by a much later Roman writer for whom the events in Jerusalem held little cultural significance. The refernce to Nero could be explained as a look back in anger or resentment to the decadence and failure of an eariler Roman administration in the same way that we still critize the policy failures of FDR or LBJ today.

We know that by the late 2nd Century Rome was already in irreversible decline with the silver content of the Denarius reduced by 1/3 from the time of Nero. With that kind of inflation and social erosion, the writer may have felt that the end of the world was already at hand.

64 posted on 02/10/2017 7:21:18 AM PST by Poison Pill
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To: vladimir998
The internal evidence can only give us some ideas as to when it was written. Nothing is guaranteed other than that range of years. The fact that the Temple’s destruction, and Jerusalem’s destruction, is not described as an accomplished fact might suggest it was written BEFORE A.D. 70. The fact that 666 = Nero would strengthen that suggestion since he died in 68. Other factors suggest it was written as the late 90s, however.

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Revelation, Catholic chapter one, Protestant verse seven,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James


There is a significant internal problem with the preterist view of Revelation in the first Catholic chapter. I have not seen any credible evidence that the Early Church Fathers testified that every eye saw Him come in the clouds in 70 AD. St. Irenaeus should have known. Not only that, but I assume the Romans who pierced and crucified the Messiah would not have been at Jerusalem 37 years later due to the terms of service.

In AD 5, the standard term was increased to twenty years plus five years in the reserves.[9] In the period following its introduction, the new term was deeply unpopular with the troops. On Augustus' death in AD 14, the legions stationed on the rivers Rhine and Danube staged major mutinies, and demanded, among other things, reinstatement of a sixteen-year term.[10] Augustus prohibited serving legionaries from marrying, a decree that remained in force for two centuries.[11] This measure was probably prudent in the early imperial period, when most legionaries were from Italy or the Roman colonies on the Mediterranean, and were required to serve long years far from home. This could lead to disaffection if they left families behind.


85 posted on 02/10/2017 9:18:15 PM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: vladimir998

Also this one; very meticulous in its analysis.

https://www.google.com/search?lr=&as_qdr=all&q=Redating+the+New+Testament&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLUz9U3MCopyK5S4gIxzcrMjTLytAQcS0sy8otC8p3y87P983IqARIroW0rAAAA&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwipqbTipojSAhVDllQKHcLZCNEQsQ4INjAK


94 posted on 02/11/2017 6:58:05 AM PST by WildHighlander57 ((WildHighlander57, returning after lurking since 2000)
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