The oldest known Marian prayer is from Egypt

Aletelia ^ | April 28, 2017 | Philip Kosloski

[NYer]

The "Sub tuum praesidium" was originally used in an ancient Coptic liturgy

As we pray for the success of Pope Francis’ trip to Egypt this weekend, a perfect prayer to use is the oldest known Marian prayer, which in fact, traces back to the pope’s host country.

The oldest known Marian prayer is found on an ancient Egyptian papyrus dating from around the year 250. Today known in the Church as the Sub tuum praesidium, the prayer is believed to have been part of the Coptic Vespers liturgy during the Christmas season.

Read more: Saint Mark: Father of Coptic Christianity

 

 

The original prayer was written in Greek and according to Roseanne Sullivan, “The prayer is addressed to Our Lady using the Greek word Θεοτόκος, which is an adjectival form of Θεοφόρος (Theotokos, or God-bearer) and is more properly translated as ‘she whose offspring is God.'” This helps to prove that the early Christians were already familiar with the word “Theotokos” well before the Third Ecumenical Council at Ephesus ratified its usage.

Below can be found the original Greek text from the papyrus, along with an English translation as listed on the New Liturgical Movement website:

 

On the papyrus, we can read: .ΠΟ ΕΥCΠΑ ΚΑΤΑΦΕ ΘΕΟΤΟΚΕΤ ΙΚΕCΙΑCΜΗΠΑ ΕΙΔΗCΕΜΠΕΡΙCTAC AΛΛΕΚΚΙΝΔΥΝΟΥ …ΡΥCΑΙΗΜΑC MONH …HEΥΛΟΓ

And an English translation could be: Under your mercy we take refuge, Mother of God! Our prayers, do not despise in necessities, but from the danger deliver us, only pure, only blessed.

 

More commonly the prayer is translated:

Beneath your compassion,
We take refuge, O Mother of God:
do not despise our petitions in time of trouble:
but rescue us from dangers,
only pure, only blessed one.

Several centuries later a Latin prayer was developed and is more widely known in the Roman Catholic Church:

Latin Text  Sub tuum praesidium confugimus, Sancta Dei Genetrix. Nostras deprecationes ne despicias in necessitatibus nostris, sed a periculis cunctis libera nos semper, Virgo gloriosa et benedicta

English Text We fly to Thy protection, O Holy Mother of God; Do not despise our petitions in our necessities, but deliver us always from all dangers, O Glorious and Blessed Virgin. Amen.

 

The prayer is currently part of the Byzantine, Roman and Ambrosian rites in the Catholic Church and is used specifically as a Marian antiphon after the conclusion of Compline outside of Lent (in the older form of the Roman breviary). It is also a common prayer that has stood the test of time and is a favorite of many Christians, and is the root of the popular devotional prayer, the Memorare.

 

[Elsie]

If it's not okay to ask others to pray for us, why did Paul ask his churches to pray for him?--how is this not going through created beings?

Uh; I'd probably have to say...

...those 'created beings' happen to be ALIVE!!

[Elsie]

Attacking a straw man is fallacious.

How about BUILDING one?

[Elsie]

Next we'll be told to wear a piece of cloth to avoid the hell fire.....oh wait. Roman Catholicosm has that too.

Do you mean...

 

[aMorePerfectUnion]

"What you wrote was false, demonstrably so; your comment contained no qualification about heaven, earth, hades, or gehenna. Further, you made no qualification that it had to be a scripture you personally believed in. You simply wrote: No Jewish or Christian prayer is ever recorded in Scripture that addresses anyone but God. I provided a scripture from Luke, King James Version, that met all the criteria in your post number 9. "

Your self-congratulations aside, you failed. Doubling down on grandiose claims while ignoring your failure is another failure af.

It was not a prayer.

[Elsie]

False, as post 61 demonstrates.

 

 

 

Genesis 33:11  King James Version (KJV)

¹¹ Take, I pray thee, my blessing that is brought to thee; because God hath dealt graciously with me, and because I have enough. And he urged him, and he took it.

 

Genesis 33:11  Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

¹¹ And take the blessing, which I have brought thee, and which God hath given me, who giveth all things. He took it with much ado at his brother's earnest pressing him,

 

 

Shall I look up and see how Rome translated the Luke 'story' posted in reply #61??? 

(Vet posted the PROT version)  Luke, Catholic chapter sixteen, Protestant verses nineteen to thirty one,  as authorized, but not authored, by King James

(you KNOW I will!  ;^)

 

 

 

Luke 16:19-31    Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

¹⁹ There was a certain rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen; and feasted sumptuously every day.

²⁰ And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores,

²¹ Desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table, and no one did give him; moreover the dogs came, and licked his sores.

²² And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell.

²³ And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom:

²⁴ And he cried, and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame.

²⁵ And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazareth evil things, but now he is comforted; and thou art tormented.

²⁶ And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you, cannot, nor from thence come hither.

²⁷ And he said: Then, father, I beseech thee, that thou wouldst send him to my father's house, for I have five brethren,

²⁸ That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments.

²⁹ And Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

³⁰ But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance.

³¹ And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.

[Elsie]

Post 61 shows the Jew prayed to "Father Abraham":

[Elsie]

I see you're misinformed about the scapular as well.

I just HATE it when folks are misinformed.

It is ALWAYS better to get it from the horses mouth; I always say...

---

For a low; LOW! price of ONLY $11.95...

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.catholiccompany.com/brown-scapular-brown-cord-18-inch-i104714/?sku=2026726&utm_source=google&utm_medium=products&aid=4280&product_id=2026726&creative=11070181829&device=c&matchtype=e

 

 

[aMorePerfectUnion]

"Post 61 shows the Jew prayed to "Father Abraham":

[Elsie]

I understand your comment indicates you do not believe Abraham is a departed saint.

Well!

Right THERE's yur problem!

[Elsie]

Put yourself in the woman’s place.

That can be dangerous; trying to see something from another's point-of-view.

Better to stay with what you've been taught by faith producing teachers.

[Elsie]

What Prots would call necromancy;
‘tis Roman religion dressed fancy.
Best better be safe;
(That scapular won’t chafe)
the itching is ants in your pancies!

[af_vet_1981]

It was not a prayer.

False; a prayer is a petition or request. The rich man made two prayers. The answer to both prayers was no.
1. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
2. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

[Elsie]

Show me the passage where it says everything has to come from scripture.

 

 

NIV Romans 15:3-4
3. For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me."
4. For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

 

 

 

[Elsie]

You are aware that Catholics were drawn and quartered in England, an attempt to exterminate them.

Who started the whole mess?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

You're wasting your time playing with words amigo.

Elsie already quoted the official translation from your headquarters that makes it clear it wasn't a prayer. Just two dead people talking in the afterlife.

[Elsie]

Since you like to speak of scripture, isn’t there one that says something about throwing a stone if you are free from sin. I assume your people are perfectly holy.

Please; clean off your mirror before posting.

Trying to gloss over the SINS of the highest heads of your chosen religion's past by attacking some vague strawman is not gonna work too well.

[Elsie]

Seems like a well known guy stated that once and it seems pretty straightforward to me.

Ain't famous guys fun!!!

Galatians 5:12
   As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

[Elsie]

Safe to say, after seeing some of the postings, even the enemy can quote scripture.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (DRA)

All scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work.

---

Some folks do NOT like rebuke; unless THEY are giving it: not receiving it.

Hebrews 12:11 NIV
No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

[Elsie]

Damn!!

Them Catholics were even mean TO EACH OTHER!!

[Elsie]

You were supposed to be distracted!

Now get to work and research...