Posted on 05/09/2017 8:08:13 AM PDT by Salvation
Post 73 had given you the answer. And I second that posting.
I support post 73. I am done.
I can understand why.
It can't be both ways.
It's either faith in Jesus and Jesus alone or faith in Jesus and Mary.
It can't be both.
What I would declare to be false is any statement that salvation is through Mary alone. Do any of your citations state that salvation can come through Mary without the intercession of Jesus?
Those quotes were pulled straight from the fatima.org website.
The Catholic pitch is the other way around...we cannot come to Jesus unless it's through Mary. Sheer. Utter. Lie.
"As we have no access to the Father except through the Son, so no one can come to the Son except by the Mother.
http://fatima.org/Crusader/cr61/cr61pg20.asp
Do you renounce this one??
God has entrusted the keys and treasures of Heaven to Mary. St. Thomas Aquinas
No one can enter into Heaven except through Mary, as entering through a gate. St. Bonaventure
Mary is called "The Gate of Heaven" because no one can enter Heaven but through her means. St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori
Holy Scripture was written for Mary, about Mary, and on account of Mary. St. Bernard
All gifts, virtues, and graces of the Holy Ghost are administered by the hands of Mary to whomsoever she desires, when she desires, and in the manner she desires, and to whatever degree she desires. St. Bernardine of Siena
http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/mary18a.htm
This is supposedly the "Tradition" Roman Catholics claim has been passed down from the original Apostles.
It is false teaching plain and simple.
I'll ask again...will you, or any Roman Catholic, renounce any of these statements as false?
Do any of these citations say that she does these things without Jesus, or do they say that she does them through Jesus and in full cooperation with and by the grace of Jesus?
Rev. 12:17
In Roman Catholicism it's about faith in Jesus and Mary. .
In Christianity it's about faith in Christ and Christ alone.
Israel. And?
This is a multi-valent image. The primary one being, she who gave birth to the "male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod."
The Pope does not affect my Catholicism. And he need not affect anyone else’s either.
History will be the judge.
It’s not about Mary no matter how much the Catholic wants it to be.
Christ gave us his Mother through John, the Apostle.
I guess some people don’t believe the Bible.
Um. Who gave birth to the Messiah?
Devote/consecrate yourself to the apparition claiming to be Mary.
The NT tells us:
24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. John 5:24 NASB
They are the Holy Rosary and devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. These are the last two remedies which signify that there will be no others."
https://www.gotquestions.org/lady-fatima.html
This is why Christianity rejects these apparitions and their false message.
The remedy to save individuals is to have faith in Christ and Christ alone.
You’ve seen the quotes. The writers are saying Mary does it. Sometimes, according to one Romam Catholic writer, it’s quicker to go to Mary than Jesus. I’ll dig up the specific quote and reference later.
In Roman Catholicism it’s about faith in Jesus and Mary.
In Christianity it’s about faith in Christ and Christ alone.
Silly me. I always thought that in Christianity, whether it be Orthodox, Latin, or Protestant, it’s about faith in God alone; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
I believe in One Almighty God. I believe that God has a plan and that He is carrying out His plan in accordance with His will. The Catechism has this to say about how He carries out His plan:
God is the sovereign master of his plan. But to carry it out he also makes use of his creatures’ cooperation. This use is not a sign of weakness, but rather a token of almighty God’s greatness and goodness. For God grants his creatures not only their existence, but also the dignity of acting on their own, of being causes and principles for each other, and thus of cooperating in the accomplishment of his plan. CCC 306
The Catechism further explains how God makes use of Mary’s cooperation through His Son, Jesus:
“Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it.” “No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.” CCC 970
Readdressing your question as to whether I renounce any of the statements you provided, I would need more information on the statements. For example you quoted the following from the Fatima web site.
“As we have no access to the Father except through the Son, so no one can come to the Son except by the Mother.
http://fatima.org/Crusader/cr61/cr61pg20.asp
The larger quote is:
“As we have no access to the Father except through the Son, so no one can come to the Son except by the Mother. As the Son is all-powerful by nature, the Mother is all-powerful in so far that by the merciful disposition of God She is our mediatrix of graces with Christ.”
So the larger context for this statement is Mary’s power is disposed on her by God.
Similarly, the other statements you provided do not disclose whether the sources of the statements explain the role of Jesus in Mary’s actions. If the larger context of any of these statements assert that Mary is acting on her own, I would reject them.
You're one of the first Catholics I have seen say this. Very rare. But more accurately, it is about faith in Christ alone that saves.
I believe in One Almighty God. I believe that God has a plan and that He is carrying out His plan in accordance with His will. The Catechism has this to say about how He carries out His plan:
I agree God has a plan and is currently carrying it out according to His plan. However, the Catechism is not His revealed Word to us. The Bible is. I would think you would do better to study the Bible to understand His plan.
Regarding the comments and how they are selected keep in mind Fatima.org is a pro-"Mary" Catholic website. So there is no "slicing" of the comments by non-catholics.
“As we have no access to the Father except through the Son, so no one can come to the Son except by the Mother. As the Son is all-powerful by nature, the Mother is all-powerful in so far that by the merciful disposition of God She is our mediatrix of graces with Christ.”
We have a classic case here of a little lie, well a big one, mixed in the Truth.
The NT records no need to come to Jesus through Mary. That's the false teaching.
The second false teaching is the claim she, which Catholics have capitalized for some reason, is the mediatrix of graces with Christ.
No. Either Christ is our one Mediator before God or He isn't. There is no allowance in the NT for this.
This is why Christianity rejects the Roman Catholic teachings on Mary. They stand in contradiction to the NT.
Bishops.
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