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To: HLPhat

I see you apply the standard that if a Christian ever in history deviates from our present understanding of religious freedom, all Christians are forever condemned. You have learned well from Barack Obama prayer breakfast speech of 2015.

It doesn’t surprise me that any person or institution falls short of his or its understanding of religious freedom (or any other aspect of what is right and what is wrong), no less how people hundreds of years in the future understand religious freedom (and other aspects of what is right and what is wrong).

Since this thread concerns what is different about the Bible and the Koran, you sound like you believe there is truth that is eternal. Perhaps this is because you are a Muslim.

The Koran says that its truth was known by man from the beginning (all of us used to be Muslims), and then the Jews and Christians came along and corrupted the truth. This corruption required a new revelation of the eternal truth through Mohammed.

If you are a Muslim, you would judge people all through time by the Koran. And, by projection, a Muslim might think anybody else would similarly judge people all through time by their current understanding of the truth.

For Jews and Christians, there is a process of discovery along with revelation. We, as a people, in communication with each other, deepen our understanding of the truth, and we, as individuals, should consider differences of opinion to be normal and even good. This is an Enlightenment idea. It was not yet developed before although, looking back, we can find hints of this in scripture and earlier scholars.


40 posted on 07/23/2017 8:38:45 AM PDT by Redmen4ever (u)
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To: Redmen4ever

>>I see you apply the standard that if a Christian ever in history deviates from our present understanding of religious freedom, all Christians are forever condemned.

Maybe that’s what you want to see.

What standard did Thomas Jefferson and his fellow Infidels of every dominion apply?


43 posted on 07/23/2017 11:44:04 AM PDT by HLPhat (It takes a Republic TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS - not a populist Tyranny of the Majority)
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To: Redmen4ever

>>you believe there is truth that is eternal

How’s that E=mc^2 truth working these days?

Gravity?

2+2=4?

John 1:1?


44 posted on 07/23/2017 12:02:48 PM PDT by HLPhat (It takes a Republic TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS - not a populist Tyranny of the Majority)
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To: Redmen4ever
>>For Jews and Christians

Which of those was Thomas Jefferson and...

"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read, "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and Infidel of every denomination."

Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography

1821Works 1:71

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_religions45.html

 

...what does "Infidel of every denomination." mean?

59 posted on 07/23/2017 3:40:02 PM PDT by HLPhat (It takes a Republic TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS - not a populist Tyranny of the Majority)
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