[hoagy62]

In truth, 5-point Calvinism scares me to death.

The whole thing about predestination is what does it to me. Say that there’s a young man who asks Jesus to be his Savior. He goes through his life, doing the best he can, but he’s not perfect (as none of us are). He questions his salvation sometimes since he feels badly about his sins. He prays to repent and takes assurance in scriptures like Romans 8:1.

Finally, he comes to the end of his life. He closes his eyes and dies...and wakes up in Hell. At the Great White Throne judgement, he asks God “Why wasn’t I saved? I trusted Jesus. Why??”. God replies, “Well I appreciate that you lived a life for Jesus, but I’m afraid you were one of those who were predestined for destruction. Sorry”.

That’s the way I read the part about predestination. If you’re predestined for destruction, no matter how badly you want to be saved, you can’t be. And no matter how much you do your best to live as Jesus commanded, it’s all to no avail.

Am I missing anything?

[xone]

ph

[Wyrd bið ful aræd]

I don’t believe in predestination, but for someone who does I assume the answer to your queston would be Romans 9:15, “For he saith to Moses: I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy; and I will shew mercy to whom I will shew mercy.”

[armydoc]

That’s the way I read the part about predestination. If you’re predestined for destruction, no matter how badly you want to be saved, you can’t be. And no matter how much you do your best to live as Jesus commanded, it’s all to no avail. Am I missing anything?

What you are missing is that scripture is clear that since the fall, the default condition of every human being is emnity with God; i.e. there are NONE that "want to be saved". For a person to "want to be saved" takes a unilateral act of God to change the person's nature; to change his heart of stone that is incapable of desiring salvation to a heart of flesh that realizes his wretched condition and responds with repentance and faith (regeneration precedes faith). The negative reaction to Calvinism, I think, is the error that assumes that it teaches that God selects from a morally NEUTRAL group of people, some to go to Heaven and some to go to hell. In reality, there are no morally neutral people. All deserve eternal punishment in hell. Calvinists believe that God chooses to save some and not others. Calvinism upholds the complete and total sovereignty of God, whereas Arminianism puts God subject to the sovereignty of man.

[SubMareener]

If you’re predestined for destruction, no matter how badly you want to be saved, you can’t be.
- - - -
Let not your heart be troubled! You should find where Jesus said that, by the way. Jesus said that if you believe in Him and keep his commandments, you will be saved. What are His Commandments? Love God (Elohim, Abba Father YHWH) and love your neighbor. Everything else flows from those two Commandments.

In the Law of Moses, earthly fathers are commanded not to provoke their children. So, would your Righteous, Loving, Heavenly Father provoke His children? No!

The ones who are predestined to destruction are the ones who chose to actively disbelieve. If you believe, then any questioning of your salvation is from the Devil, who is still accusing the bretheren, but not for long!

[mjp]

That’s the way I read the part about predestination. If you’re predestined for destruction, no matter how badly you want to be saved, you can’t be. And no matter how much you do your best to live as Jesus commanded, it’s all to no avail. Am I missing anything?

One must avoid fatalism and mechanism.This is explored in Systematic Theology by Wayne Grudem, page 674-676.

[Sans-Culotte]

Am I missing anything?

It doesn't really work that way. Most people who don't "get" predestination (or don't believe it) think it is something to worry over in the manner you described. What it basically means is that only people who are predestined to believe will believe. Taking the guy in your example: if he was a believer, then he was predestined to be a believer. You don't have to believe in predestination to be a believer.

If there is anything "scary" about it, it is that some people will not be predestined to believe. A lot of people have a problem with the idea that God chooses who will believe and that some will not be chosen.

[WASCWatch]

I can clear up a few things for you regarding 5-point Calvinism.

The Calvin’s you are thinking about are hyper-Calvinists. For an explanation of hyper-Calvinism, google hyper-Calvinism and Philip JOHNSON. He is a Calvinist and explains the errors of the different types of hyper-Calvinism.

He also runs the site www.Surgeon.com

Sturgeon is a Calvinist hero. Go to the part that lists Spurgeon’s sermons and read sermon No. 1516. Hyper-Calvinists don’t like it when you point them to this particular sermon because it destroys their argument related to double predestination.

[DungeonMaster]

Am I missing anything?

It seems that you are imagining a good person so I'd say that what you are missing is what the word of god says about good people. There aren't any.

SO then there is Matt 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

This seems to echo what you were imagining but even here it still says there are no good people.

[Pining_4_TX]

Yes, you are... the sovereignty of God over all things including salvation. Which would you rather depend upon, your own ability to “keep” your salvation or God’s love and mercy?

And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. KJV

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. ESV