Women Preachers in Church: A Response to John Piper

Think Theology ^ | 06/09/2018 | Andrew Wilson

[lee martell]

I have no problem at all with women becoming preachers.
So long as their heart and soul belongs to Christ.
Same as for men. If someone is sincere and knowledgeable, them shine the light of their influence and inspiration.
In today’s world, we need those people more than ever.

[TurkeyLurkey]

Here’s another one:

Complementarianism Is a Good Word that Has Been Hijacked to Wrongly Mean Authoritarianism

http://www.wadeburleson.org/2018/06/complementarianism-is-good-word-that.html

[punknpuss]

I believe that the problem in the modern church is the influence of women in the church as leaders and teachers. Most churches that have gone south in their doctrine have women in positions of authority.

[cdcdawg]

A church elder once said to me, “I don’t have a problem with women in the clergy, I just have a problem with the women who are in the clergy.”

I had no idea what the guy who said that to me exactly meant at the time. I get it now. Not sure how that gets fixed.

[Bob434]

Southern Baptist Convention faces showdown on #MeToo movement, church’s treatment of women

“The resolution asks the convention to confess that throughout the church’s history, men have “wronged women, abused women, silenced women, objectified women by ungodly comments and ungodly acts, preyed on women, left women unprotected, failed to report injustices and evils committed against women to civil authorities established by God and failed to act out of the overflow of the image of Christ,” the report stated.”

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/06/09/southern-baptist-convention-faces-showdown-on-metoo-movement-churchs-treatment-of-women

Feminism- destroying one church after another- In the end, there will be a great turning away from the concepts of Godly Religion in an effort to appease people who don’t accept God’s word in it’s entirety and wish to mold religion into their own creation-

[scbison]

Yep when the Order of Creation is violated, church bodies end of failing...

[jonno]

There is a reason that Paul gave the admonitions he did regarding the women in leadership roles. It all goes back to The Fall, and the nature or men & women, and their roles.

There is a reason why boys need a father. Does that mean every boy without a father turns out bad? Does that mean that there are no mothers who are able to adequately fill the father’s role? The answer to both is obviously, No. Likewise, we can point to women who faithfully teach The Word. However, what we’re talking about in these instances are the exceptions.

The more we as a society stray from “the rule”, the more we see society decay. This is not to say it is the fault of the women - on the contrary. If men did not so easily abdicate their roles, there would be less need for women to fill-in - to fill the leadership vacuum.

Which is why we need to heed one of Peter’s warnings - that the devil prowls around - seeking whom he may devour. So then a women seeking to fill a leadership roll needs discernment: is she responding to a call from God - or is she responding the the call of her own sin-nature - to desire authority over men in general, or over her husband in particular (Gen 3:16)?

[odawg]

“Watching a woman preach is like watching a dog walk on his hind legs; you are not surprised he does it badly, you are surprised he can do it at all.” Samuel Johnson

[lee martell]

You probably do have a point there. The majority of women say they want to negotiate, meaning go along to get along with the strongest trend. Our schools are changing drastically due to this attitude. I don’t know what the right answer is. It may have to be some sort of artificial restraint such as gender quotas.

[JayElBee]

This another area hi jacked by liberal theologians. We would be wise to adhere to God’s prescribed order. First came women as clergy, that lead to gay clergy. Most liberal denominations that swayed from the Word bleed membership and the churches become purveyors of feel goo mush.

[ealgeone]

That’s the pattern I’ve noticed as well. Once you deviate from the Word, all bets are off.

[b4me]

“Does that mean that there are no mothers who are able to adequately fill the father’s role? “

If a woman can adequately fill the roll father’s roll she would be a guy. God designed both and kids need both imput from a good man and a good woman.

Check out John Elderedge books and other Christian men’s books likely helpful too. Boys do best with men to help them in ways only men understand.

---

As far as women preachers, I’d rather a man, I think it’s more in line with God’s word. I do see that women can be teachers of women’s groups or children in some ways, but head of a church of families, singles etc, I think God’s best is for a man to be spiritual head of household - the church is a family/household.

[thecodont]

Agreed.

[jonno]

Agreed.

[unlearner]

Here is the particular verse cited in the article:

1 Timothy 2:12
And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

Backing up to the prior verse, 11 says: “Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.”

Three important points about this passage:

1. Paul is discussing conduct in the Church / Congregational Meeting.

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

2. In both the Old and New Testaments, the Hebrew and Greek words for man and woman are the same words used for husband and wife. Therefore, it must be determined from context which meaning is intended. “Gynaiki” means woman or wife:

http://biblehub.com/greek/gunaiki_1135.htm

A critical reading of this passage indicates Paul is specifically addressing the role of wives and their husbands, and how this relationship is honored by the order in which church meetings operate.

Men represent their families in this sphere. There is to be order in the church meeting. Women demonstrate godly character in their quietness and meekness. Christ Himself demonstrated such quietness and meekness at the appropriate times. This is not a dishonor to women. It is one way women demonstrate their devotion to the Lord. Outside of the church, in family settings is where women are called to speak: They praise, give testimony, and even “prophesy” for the Lord.

It should also be noted that the modern entertainment format of the church is not how the early church operated. Men participated. They were expected to do more than sit back and listen to the sermon and watch the band or choir perform. In today’s church almost everyone is silent, other than in congregational singing.

The first eye witnesses of the resurrection were women. They were meant to testify to what they saw and heard. And they did.

3. The passage is specifically about women teaching in the church. There is only one example of a woman teaching in the church given to us in the Bible. But it is not a positive example to follow:

Revelation 2:20
Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

[metmom]

“The resolution asks the convention to confess that throughout the church’s history, men have “wronged women, abused women, silenced women, objectified women by ungodly comments and ungodly acts, preyed on women, left women unprotected, failed to report injustices and evils committed against women to civil authorities established by God and failed to act out of the overflow of the image of Christ,” the report stated.”

Actually, they are correct in that.

Godly men have not stepped up to the plate and stopped other men from abusing their wives.

Women are so often told they have to be in submission to their husbands and in the past, they have been instructed to go back into abusive situations, where they are getting beat, and *submit* to their husbands and pray for them.

Instead they should have called the man on the carpet and given HIM Scriptural instruction on how to treat his wife and while that does not mean kowtowing to her every whim, it certainly does include not abusing her physically, emotionally, sexually, or degrading her in public or private.

I know many men who are VERY controlling of their wives. One such situation I know of ended very tragically with him now being a widower.

[metmom]

This is not to say it is the fault of the women - on the contrary. If men did not so easily abdicate their roles, there would be less need for women to fill-in - to fill the leadership vacuum.

Thank you.

I see too many men blame the woes of the world on feminism, but where were they to stand in the gap and stand against it?

Many men let it happen and are equally culpable.

[aimhigh]

preaching a sermon in a local church is not the same thing as teaching”.

A careful study of the New Testament shows that preaching was always directed towards unbelievers - never believers. Teaching was directed towards believes and unbelievers. There is no basis for preaching in church, unless a lot of unbelievers show up.

[punknpuss]

The idea that everyone’s opinion has as much value as any other is killing our culture. There are some exceptional women in this world intellectually speaking but too few of them would step aside to let a man lead. Women in my church are beating the drum for suffrage. I think their problem is pride. The minute they make a woman an elder I’m out of there.