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To: Marchmain

From a Catholic perspective, is it even possible for a Pope to be a heretic?

Protestants generally consider a lot of Catholic views and customs (whether called doctrines or some other label) as heretical when measured by the views that the Protestants hold. Of course the Protestant doctrines vary from one Church to another, which is one the main arguments Catholics use to say that there is error in Protestant beliefs because they do not agree together.

I think this is a reasonable point to bring up. But I also think, in order for it to be a valid point, traditional Catholic teachings can not change.

For Protestants, if the preacher of a Church teaches heresies, such as Jesus not being fully God or fully man (for example, calling Him a demigod or merely a prophet but not God) then this would require either removing such a preacher or leaving that particular Church. To me I would not be able to continue being part of such a group.

But for Catholics, other than driving to another Parish, if false doctrine is being promulgated, what is the choice? It’s not like it is considered acceptable to leave and go to a Protestant Church. And if the visible head of the Catholic Church does so, what is the remedy?

To me, having a Pope become heretical would be like a Protestant discovering some irrefutable evidence that some of the books in his Bible were complete forgeries. I can’t quite imagine how that conclusion could be reached, but if it was then it would shatter the foundation of his beliefs.

So, without rehashing the endless Protestant / Catholic debates I am trying to make sense of the Catholic perspective on this subject. I may not agree but I would at least like to understand the logical premise.


18 posted on 08/04/2018 12:06:01 AM PDT by unlearner (A war is coming.)
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To: unlearner

All these little foibles, crises, heresies, scandals, will smooth out and pass by, as those before. The Church is big, it’s monumental, it’s gorgeous, it’s the sole bastion of sanctity in the world. It’s powerful. It was founded by Christ himself 2000 years ago. Protest-ants were an off-shoot, a man-made upstart imitation. Their obsession with the Bible reflects their lack of deep symbolism, art, theology.

I’m not saying all that is true of protestants, but it’s part of the old Catholic mindset that is woven into the past and present.

So all that means to convey the lack of concern about apostasy. The Church is impressive, even invincible. People believe in her. Bergoglio has raised fears among those who follow all the details, but most Catholics keep their interests local.


24 posted on 08/04/2018 1:16:00 AM PDT by Marchmain (Things are not what they seem.)
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To: unlearner

You know there was a time in history when there were two competing popes? Catholics who lived then would not have known who to believe. Catholics today can look back in retrospect and pick the guy they feel was more orthodox or the one that did better things, and label the other guy as an impostor. I think a lot of Catholics today are looking at Francis and saying that he is an impostor also. The question for Catholics then becomes, who is the genuine pope?

Of course the word of God is the only unchanging revelation, and it appears self evident that past and present popes have disagreed on doctrinal issues. Papal infallibility or even apostolic succession does not hold up to scrutiny from a logical standpoint. I think Jesus and Paul both taught that holding to the original message was the test of being a true disciple, not claiming to be the successor of an apostle and therefore infallible yourself.

See John 8:31,32 31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

If we hold to Jesus teaching, we are His disciples, if we don’t hold to His teachings, we are not.

See also Paul from Galatians 1: 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

By including the “we” in the above he showed that even those claiming apostleship must have their message examined to see if it matches the original message. Our foundation must be the unchanging revelation of God’s word.


25 posted on 08/04/2018 1:23:42 AM PDT by winslow
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To: unlearner
So, without rehashing the endless Protestant / Catholic debates I am trying to make sense of the Catholic perspective on this subject.

Good luck!

There may be a CLAIMED 'Catholic persective' on things; but the FACTS are that there is NO Catholic unity of thought on many facets of the Roman religion.

162 posted on 08/05/2018 4:01:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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