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To: CraigEsq

The question was “How do you USE a baptism?”

My answer was about the “purpose“ of baptism and was based on my personal experience- “How do I use...”. I have no scriptural support for the stated purpose - only the effect I have seen baptisms have on unsaved (and saved) people who witnessed the testimony of the new believer.

The REASON we baptize is because we are commanded by Scripture to do so.


288 posted on 08/14/2018 3:29:32 AM PDT by Ken Regis
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To: Ken Regis
Well, I've been engaged in these debates for a very long time. These threads usually end because some squirrel shows up and the crowd runs over to the next conflict between well-meaning Catholics and well-meaning Evangelical believers.

Either ONE of these two groups is mostly right, or BOTH groups are mostly wrong. Neither group has a monopoly on truth.

It's been nearly two weeks since the last post in this particular debate.

I don't agree with a single aspect of the previous post's nine points and I decided not to let these errors be the last word(s). Maybe someone will see my response (sent to myself) and be persuaded to see something new. I hope so. Maybe someone will reply and have "the last word." I don't care. I just could not let error go unattended, even if my response just ends up in the ether.

1. [Baptism] Cleanses you from iniquity, gives you a heart of flesh rather that of stone. Ezekiel 36:25-33
This is the washing Paul wrote of in Eph. 5:26 and Titus 3:5. Jesus had this very promise in mind in John 3:5. What was figuratively described in Ezek. 36:25 is explained as literal in vv. 26–27. The gift of the “new heart” signifies the new birth, which is regeneration by the Holy Spirit (cf. 11:18–20). The “heart” stands for the whole nature. The “spirit” indicates the governing power of the mind, which directs thought and conduct. A “heart of stone” is stubborn and self-willed. A “heart of flesh” is pliable and responsive.

The external restoration must be preceded by an internal one. Ezekiel's prophecy refers both to outward cleansing by a ceremony and to inward, spiritual cleansing. The change in their condition must not be superficial, but must be based on a radical renewal of the heart. Then the heathen, understanding from the regenerated lives of God's people how holy God is, would perceive Israel's past troubles to have been only the necessary vindications of His righteousness. Thus God's name would be "sanctified" before the heathen, and God's people are prepared for outward blessings.

The “sprinkle ... water”--phraseology is taken from the law; namely, the water mixed with the ashes of a heifer sprinkled with a hyssop on the unclean (Nu 19:9-18); the thing signified is the cleansing blood of Christ sprinkled on the conscience and heart (Heb 9:13, 14; 10:22; compare Jer 33:8; Eph 5:26).

Ezekiel profoundly proclaims the doctrines of conversion and spiritual life. He includes forgiveness (v. 25), regeneration (v. 26), the indwelling Holy Spirit (v. 27), and the responsive obedience to God’s law (v. 27). These are all clearly presented as he prophesies Israel’s conversion. As a nation, they will truly know their God (v. 38), hate their sin (vv. 31–32), and glorify their Savior (v. 32).

2. [Baptism] Makes you a disciple of Jesus. Matthew 28:19 (with teaching)
The imperative (i.e. the command to make disciples, to call individuals to commit to Jesus as Master and Lord) explains the central focus of the Great Commission, while the Greek participles (translated “go”, “baptizing”, and “teaching” [v. 20]) describe aspects of the process. In other words, "Go, baptize, teach" are participles modifying the imperative verb "make disciples."

When one is baptized into the name of the Trinity, he professes to acknowledge and appropriate God in all that he is and in all that he does for man (n.b. infants can’t do this). The new believer recognizes and depends upon God the Father as his Creator and Preserver; receives Jesus Christ as his only Mediator and Redeemer (along with His pattern of life); and confesses the Holy Spirit as his Sanctifier and Comforter.

3. [Baptism] Forgives your sins. Acts 2:38 (With repentance)
Baptism does not produce forgiveness and cleansing from sin. The verse does not imply that people can be saved without having faith in Christ as Savior, because the need to believe is implied both in the command to “repent” and also in the command to “be baptized . . . in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.” The willingness to submit to baptism is an outward expression of inward faith in Christ (cf. 1 Pet. 3:21).

The gospel can be summarized in different ways. Sometimes faith alone is named as the one thing necessary for salvation (see John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Rom. 10:9; Eph. 2:8–9), other times repentance alone is named (Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; 5:31; 17:30; 2 Cor. 7:10), and sometimes both are named (Acts 20:21). Genuine faith always involves repentance, and vice versa. Repentance includes a change of mind that ends up trusting God (i.e., having faith).

In Acts, the abbreviated form emphasizes the distinctive quality of believer’s baptism, for Jesus is now included in a way that he was not in John’s baptism (19:4–5). “For the forgiveness of your sins” does not mean that baptism effects forgiveness. Rather, forgiveness comes through that which is symbolized by baptism (see Ro 6:3–4; 1Pe 3:21).

In NT times baptism so closely followed conversion that the two were considered part of one event (e.g. Act 2:38). So, although baptism is not a means by which we enter into a vital faith relationship with Jesus Christ, it is closely associated with faith (see 1Pe 3:21). Baptism depicts graphically what happens as a result of the Christian’s union with Christ, which comes with faith—through faith we are united with Christ, just as through our natural birth we are united with Adam. As we fell into sin and became subject to death in father Adam, so we now have died and been raised again with Christ—which baptism symbolizes.

4. [Baptism] Gives you the Holy Spirit. John 3:5, Acts 2:38.
The phrase born of water and the Spirit in 3:5 refers to spiritual birth, which cleanses from sin and brings spiritual transformation and renewal. Water here does not refer to the water of physical birth, nor is it likely that it refers to baptism. The background is probably Ezek. 36:25–27, where God promises, “I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean. . . . And I will give you a new heart. . . . And I will put my Spirit within you.”

Regarding John 3:5 and “born of water and the Spirit”, Jesus referred not to literal water here but to the need for “cleansing” (e.g., Ezek. 36:24–27, see above). When water is used figuratively in the OT, it habitually refers to renewal or spiritual cleansing, especially when used in conjunction with “spirit” (Num. 19:17–19; Ps. 51:9–10; Isa. 32:15 44:3–5 55:1–3; Jer. 2:13; Joel 2:28–29). Thus, Jesus refers to the spiritual washing or purification of the soul, accomplished by the Holy Spirit through the Word of God at the moment of salvation (cf. Eph. 5:26; Titus 3:5), required for belonging to his kingdom.

There are three outstanding conversions in the Book of Acts. They have been given to us as illustrations. There is the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch, the conversion of Cornelius, and the conversion of Paul. These three men are representatives of the three families of Noah: the son of Shem, the son of Ham, and the son of Japheth. In each of these three cases, the Word of God was used by the Spirit of God for their conversions. God’s method seems to be the Word of God, used by the Spirit of God, given through a man of God (following the Great Commission). I believe that our Lord, saying that one must be “born of water and of the Spirit”, referred to the Spirit of God using the Word of God. Without this, Nicodemus could not enter into the kingdom of God.

5. [Baptism] Joins you with the death and resurrection of Jesus. Romans 6:2-5, Colossians 2:12.
It is not, "By baptism we are buried with Him into death," which makes no sense at all; but, "By baptism with Him into death we are buried with Him"; in other words, "By the same baptism which publicly enters us into His death, we are made partakers of His burial also").

Baptism pictures what has already taken place when a person repents and trusts the finished work of Christ on the cross. Baptism symbolizes being buried with Christ (submersion under water) and being raised to new life with Christ (emergence from water). Baptism symbolizes the person's union with, and incorporation into, Christ by the action of the Holy Spirit. Hence, they now have the power to live in newness of life.

The preposition used (baptized “into” (Gk. heis - as in Matthew 28:19) denotes inward union, participation; not in order to bring about the union, for that has already been effected. Compare 1 Corinthians 12:12, 13, 27.

6. [Baptism] Washes the Church and makes her holy. Ephesians 5:25-26
So we have seen the past, present, and future. Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it (the past). He is sanctifying the Church (not the RCC, but His Church) with the washing of water by the Word - present. And in the future, the Church will be presented to Him as a radiant bride with all sin removed. Then the Church will be holy and unblamable.

7. [Baptism] Clothes you in Christ. Galatians 3:27.
The language of “putting on,” as used of clothing, suggests taking on a new life and purpose through being spiritually united to Christ.

This is not water baptism, which cannot save (see notes on Acts 2:38; 22:16). Paul used the word “baptized” in a metaphorical manner to speak of being “immersed,” or “placed into” Christ (cf. Gal. 2:20) by the spiritual miracle of union with him in his death and resurrection.

Salvation results in the believer’s spiritual union with Christ. Paul was emphasizing the fact that we have been united with Christ through salvation. Positionally before God, we have put on Christ, his death, resurrection, and righteousness. Practically, we need to clothe ourselves with Christ before men, in our conduct (Rom. 13:14).

8. [Baptism] Regenerates you. Titus 3:5.
Salvation comes not because of our works (!!) but by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit. Some have understood this as saying that baptism (“the washing”) causes salvation. However, in this context human deeds are clearly downplayed (“not because of works”) and the emphasis is on divine action and initiative (“he saved us”). The “washing” described here is the spiritual cleansing, which is outwardly symbolized in baptism.

Salvation is not achieved by human effort or merit but it comes through God’s mercy alone (see Da 9:18; Eph 2:8). “Washing of rebirth” is a reference to new birth which baptism symbolizes. It cannot mean that baptism is necessary for regeneration, since the NT plainly teaches that the new birth is an act of God’s Spirit (see, e.g., Jn 3:5) and is not effected or achieved by ceremony. 9. [Baptism] Saves you. 1 Peter 3:21
Peter is not at all referring to water baptism here, but rather a figurative immersion into union with Christ as an ark of safety from the judgment of God. The resurrection of Christ demonstrates God’s acceptance of Christ’s substitutionary death for the sins of those who repent and believe (Acts 2:30–31; Rom. 1:4). Judgment fell on Christ - just as the judgment of the flood waters fell on the ark. (n.b. God sealed the eight into the ark.) The believer who is in Christ is thus sealed by the Holy Spirit in the ark of safety (Jesus Christ) and will sail over the waters of judgment into eternal glory (cf. Rom. 6:1–4).

Baptism symbolizes salvation in that it depicts Christ’s death, burial and resurrection and our identification with him in these experiences (see Rom 6:4). In reality, believers are saved by what baptism symbolizes—Christ’s death and resurrection. The symbol and the reality are so closely related that the symbol is sometimes used to refer to the reality (see note on Rom 6:3–4).

295 posted on 08/20/2018 3:55:44 PM PDT by Ken Regis
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